does CN get a bad rap?

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

CN gets a bad rap the same way any and all alignments get a bad rap.

Because some people keep insisting that metagame problems between players are best seen as in-game problems between their non-existent fictional characters, which, I suppose, in a reverse-logical sense, is the best way to discuss and resolve conflict between two or more actual people.

Blaming player problems on alignment differences is more than a little like a ventriloquist blaming his dummy for all the trouble it caused with its unkind words.

The fact that the trouble-makers have something in the book to let them delay getting kicked out of the group doesn't help, though.

And "all alignments get a bad rap?" When's the last time people bemoaned the trouble that a Neutral Good character caused?

 

[Mallus]

The fact that the trouble-makers have something in the book to let them delay getting kicked out of the group doesn't help, though.

Nor is it the root problem, which is sorta my point...

And "all alignments get a bad rap?" When's the last time people bemoaned the trouble that a Neutral Good character caused?

What I meant was 'it's more than CN that gets a bad rap'.

You're right, though, nobody would blame alignment when it's people playing NG characters not playing nice.

Which is odd. Why is so clearly the players fault in one case, and the rules fault in others? Do people playing CN (or E) characters somehow get possessed by the malign will-sapping power resident in that single page of alignment descriptions in the PHB, helplessly becoming rude, backstabbing ***holes?

 

[Someone]

The fact that the trouble-makers have something in the book to let them delay getting kicked out of the group doesn't help, though.

And "all alignments get a bad rap?" When's the last time people bemoaned the trouble that a Neutral Good character caused?

Not Neutral Good, but Lawful Good, sure; in this case the problem comes from the DMs, not the players. I've known -and read- about a lot of DMs that demand that his LG characters behave in a way that would make Superman look as a crazed drunken rapist in comparison.

 

[pawsplay]

And he saved the girl. He's good and bad and sometimes both. Wrong. He's always both.

==> Neutral.

Chaotic neutral is a great alignment if you don't want to care about alignments.

He's evil. Something saving a girl is not a free pass for randomly betraying and killing people, however a good idea it might seem at the time.

 

[EyeontheMountain]

I agree CN gets a bad rap, and deservedly, considering the attitudes most people bring to the alignment. (Like many have said above, "ignore alignment", etc)

There are jsut some alignments that don't fit an adventuring group, and CN is one. Why stay with these guys when you disagree with them? Common good? (CG), You said you would? (L?) It is the right thing to do? (NG).

No. CN characters have little reason in alignment terms to stay with a party, unless it is a background and personal relationship thing. And if so, what excuse do they have for screwing over the only people who can apparently stand to be around them?

Yep, I ban CN along with all the evil alignments. CN is just not a heroic alignment, which is the bottom line for me as I run heroic games.

 

[BroccoliRage]

Obviously, most of the people who post on these boards are sane individuals. Obviously, they are sane individuals who have differences of opinion on what good, evil, law, and chaos represent--see the myriad and innumerable alignment threads for evidence of this. This suggests that there is more than one way of interpreting these concepts. Therefore, accusing those who do not share your opinion on these concepts of being somehow dangerous or worthy of shunning is ill-advised. You can have a difference of opinion with someone without declaring him insane.

And who did I declare insane, again?

All I said was, "A person who was confused about chaos, law, good, and evil would not be allowed in my home." If that bothers you, don't read what I type. I'm not going to apologize for a harmless opinion.

And anyway, are you insinuating that debating D&D alignment is akin to philosophy?

 

[Nightfall]

CN, CE and NE are not permissible PC alignments at my table.

See i'd allowed CN in either a good/neutral game, but not NE/CE/LE. But the exact opposite with evil/non-good games, IE CN and no LG/NG/CG.

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

don't read what I type.

That's a very good idea, and easy to implement.

 

[JiffyPopTart]

Just chiming in with my 2 pence.

I play a CN character in the Age of Worms campaign. He goes along on the adventures because to him, the end of the world is a BAD thing. He wants to save his own skin.

He will occasionally go out of his way to help a stranded party member (some GOOD) and will equally suprise a talkative bad-guy NPC with an impromptu and unexpected empowered orb of acid to the face if it gives him an advantage in combat (some EVIL).

He will stand by his word given to the party (some LAWFUL) and generally follow the rules of the land (some LAWFUL) but has also been known to not pay a lot attention to the occasional party member being in fireball range (some CHAOTIC) and to make a deal with a semi-bad-guy only to lull him into a false sense of peace so he can make way with an impromptu and unexpected empowered orb of acid to the face (extremely CHAOTIC).

So, to sum it up, he clearly isn't evil and clearly isn't good. He is somewhere directly in between. Neutral on that axis. He is more chaotic than he is lawful in his actions. Chaotic on that axis.

Thus...a non-insane, non-evil-wannabe, non-random mental patient Chaotic Neutral.

DS

 

[Seeten]

Pirates of the Caribbean, Jack Sparrow, reminds me of a Chaotic Neutral character.

I'd certainly allow Jack Sparrow into one of my games. No question.