does CN get a bad rap?

[wayne62682]

IME everyone who has played Chaotic Neutral has done it because they don't want to play a heroic character, but the DM won't let them play a villain (i.e. Evil). The majority of my old group seemed to gravitate towards this (we never did play a game where the PCs were heroes).

The biggest reason people (well, the new generation anyways) play CN is because of two people; Han Solo and Captain Jack Sparrow, the posterboys for Chaotic Neutral (although the majority of people forget that Solo became Chaotic Good at the end of Episode IV when he came back to help Luke). Jack Sparrow, on the other hand, is clearly the sort of Chaotic Neutral that I've encountered in my experiences: Not a good guy by any stretch of the word, but will help the good guys because its better than helping the bad guys (and because the bad guys are usually out to get him). Sadly this is also the kind who gives the alignment a bad rep (nothing against Captain Sparrow as I think he's a great character) because of the "I'm going to sell you out to save my own skin" mentality.

 

[pawsplay]

I played a CD fighter/wizard once. He was basically a rootless mercenary. Because of his strong martial pride, he meshed rather well with the more heroic other party members. I didn't play him as evil at all, just someone inclined to tell other people to solve their own problems.

It's probably my favorite alignment, probably because it meshes well with my real life ethos. I'm probably CN with some NG leanings, and a few LE quirks.

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

The problem with most CN's is that they are typically played as Chaotic Evil, tempered with the occasional balancing act of almost goodness... and this act is typically centered around the group's or party's objectives, rather than their own personal actions. Basically behaving as some sort of anti-hero, justified by having some greater good overlying their behavior.

That does not fly with me... if you act personally as a sadistic nut, then you will acquire an evil alignment from me... but it is always argued.

I think the "anti-hero" situation actually works quite well for CN. A CN character who thinks he's a good guy and works a really grim "ends justify means" schtick works well. He goes after evil villains with a passion, since he's a "hero," and he doesn't go out of his way to commit evil acts...he just doesn't go out of his way to avoid them.

I've seen it work, and the key is to remember that you believe, deep down, that you're a good guy, and let that guide you. Sure, when you catch one of the bad guy's minions, you'll break his fingers for information, but better that than let any of those poor villagers get sacrificed to a dark god, right?

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

I blame the idiotic 2E defintion of CN, which basically called it the insane alignment.

I blame it on the players. It's the alignment of choice for folks who want to eschew roleplaying in favor of whatever whim takes their fancy at any given moment. And no, that's not a realistic portrayal of anyone but someone with a chemical imbalance.

Chaotic Neutral doesn't get a bad rap, it gets the rap that its biggest fans have stuck it with.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

My take on CN has always been the kind of anti-establishment quintessential rebellion kind of person. The kind of person who just "has a problem with authority," who hates cops for simply being cops, who likes sex, drugs, and rock-n-roll, who will never, ever do what you tell him just because you tell him to do it (and often won't do it just because you tell him to do it).

Think punk rock, think Jim Morrison, think some of the edgier rap...anything that says "society's screwed up, and I'm not gonna just shut up and take it!"

Except that's what those people claim is their motivation. Unless you're under 19 years old, "I have a problem with authority" is a cover for your real motivations, IMO.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Han Solo and Captain Jack Sparrow, the posterboys for Chaotic Neutral (although the majority of people forget that Solo became Chaotic Good at the end of Episode IV when he came back to help Luke).

Han Solo was straight-up Neutral, not Chaotic Neutral. He was consistent in his behavior and motivations and formed strong personal bonds on a regular basis.

 

[Templetroll]

No, it attracts exactly the people that give it as bad a rep as it has.

 

[Someone]

Han Solo was straight-up Neutral, not Chaotic Neutral. He was consistent in his behavior and motivations and formed strong personal bonds on a regular basis.

That rules out as non-chaotic most, if not all, of Chaotic-anything characters widely regarded as Chaotic, starting with Robin Hood. Robin easily formed strong personal bonds (with a band of merry men, not just a wookie) and his behaviour was fairly consistent, instead of being easily convinced to rescue princesses from heavily guarded prisons and unexpectedly coming back to attack immense battle stations with a cargo ship.

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

That rules out as non-chaotic most, if not all, of Chaotic-anything characters widely regarded as Chaotic, starting with Robin Hood. Robin easily formed strong personal bonds (with a band of merry men, not just a wookie) and his behaviour was fairly consistent, instead of being easily convinced to rescue princesses from heavily guarded prisons and unexpectedly coming back to attack immense battle stations with a cargo ship.

I came up with a pretty good rule of thumb to determine whether a character is chaotic or not. Answer the following question: What do you think of The Man?

If your answer is something like, "just a concept that a bunch of paranoid hippies invented to justify their lashing out at innocent people," you're probably lawful.

If your answer is something like, "The Man tries to keep people down because he doesn't want to share power or wealth with anyone," you're probably chaotic.

If your answer is something like, "what? Oh. Oh yeah, 'damn The Man'," you're probably neutral.

For the record, people over 19 who have a problem with authority are probably of the opinion that authority tends to become corrupt and fail to serve the purpose it was erected to serve, and therefore have a rational (if debatable) reason to feel that way. One must trust that a person in a position of authority is not a scoundrel who abuses his authority. One must also trust that a system of distributing authority is well-designed and not rife with corruption. This trust may or may not correspond to the actual matter of fact.

 

[rgard]

An "alignment wars" thread...

Is it just me, or do CN characters (PC or otherwise) have a bad reputation? Specifically, are they considered more "villainous" than N or LN characters? I ask because there seem to be a lot of CN villains in published adventures, not to mention the fact that slaadi seem to be construed as adversaries --- or all the "I hate when someone plays CN because they always act CE" posts. So, is it just that CN gets misplayed a lot, or is there something in the alignment that makes it particularly villainous? Explain!

I suspect that the vast number of new-to-the-game players choose CN as the first alignment they ever play. I remember several new players on several different occasions ask, "what alignment should my character be?" Invariably somebody would pipe in, "Chaotic Neutral, you can do whatever you want."

So some of the bad reputation may as much be due to the playing style of new players in general.

Maybe, I dunno.

Rich