Does current plane affect Outsider status?

[Kalendraf]

In general, it seems that the 3E monster-type of "Outsider" is used to denote a creature from another plane of existence. This definition works fine so long as the party is on the Prime Material Plane. But what happens when the party is no longer on that plane? Is a demon encountered in the Abyss still an Outsider? Seems like the party are now the real outsiders while the demons found in the Abyss are now "Natives" rather than Outsiders.

The primary reason for my asking this is because I'm wondering how a sword of bane vs. evil-outsiders will function on a plane such as the abyss, hell, etc. Either these creatures are still considered outsiders and the sword works normally, or since the creatures are now natives the bane effect doesn't function.

 

[AuraSeer]

An outsider is always an outsider, even if he's on his home plane. A demon in the Abyss, or a devil in the Nine Hells, will still be affected by an eviloutsiderbane weapon.

The only thing that changes is whether the creatures are considered "extraplanar." That's important for spells like Banishment, which affects extraplanar creatures regardless of their type. A creature is extraplanar any time it's outside its home plane. (A demon is extraplanar on the Prime Material Plane, but not in the Abyss. A normal human is extraplanar everywhere except the Prime Material.)

 

[Kalendraf]

Thanks for the quick reply. That's basically how I assumed it probably worked, but wanted to make sure. A beast is still a beast whether it's on this plane or that one, so it made sense that outsiders kept outsider status as well. I guess it's mostly the name that seems out of place here. I'd prefer the term Alien instead, but then it might make the game seem too much like Sci-Fi instead of Fantasy.

 

[Trine]

What AuraSeer said.

Alien wouldn't work too well either though. A lot of people understand it as extra-terrestrial creatures, but like the term Outsider, it all depends on your point of reference. You'd be running into the same problems, with the added effect of it sounding more Sci-Fi to some people. (It's more of a political word, really.)

 

[Olive]

This is somethign they're changing for 3e, according to the Fiend Folio. In FF, cretures which are from a plane other than the prime, and residing on that plane, have a extraplanar subtype. The book describe how this is from a prime perspective, and when not on their home plane, the PCs are extraplanar.

 

[AuraSeer]

The current term makes sense to me, since it explains where the critters are from. Just like a New Yorker is from New York, an outsider is from Outside (i.e., the Outer Planes). "Alien" would not have that connection to the cosmology, and its everyday meaning is almost identical to that of the word "outsider".

Anyway, if you want to be sci-fi about it, you need to call them Xenomorphs.

__________________
"Is this gonna be a stand-up fight, Sir, or another bug hunt?"

 

[andargor]

Anyway, if you want to be sci-fi about it, you need to call them Xenomorphs.

Doesn't "Xenomorph" mean "of a shape that is foreign". Then an orc is a xenomorph to a human

Andargor

 

[Spatzimaus]

The DnD cosmology assumes the Primes are the "main" planes, where all types of energy and alignment mix, while the outer planes are different in that they are strongly tied to one alignment or element. So, in that logic, what we call an Outsider would actually be "creature from a non-Prime plane", whether it's a sentient being or a Celestial Badger.

***TANGENTIAL RANT INCOMING***

Personally I've never liked this cosmology, since it creates a sort of planar egotism, where my plane (the Prime) is the only one that's really important, while the others sort of revolve around it. I mean, if you can make a Bane (Good Outsider) weapon that affects every single creature in a dozen or so planes, why can't you make a Bane (Prime) weapon that affects everything on our plane? Answer: the fact that practically every adventure takes place on the Prime would unbalance it. Good metagame reason, terrible in-game support logic.

In an old campaign for a custom (loosely D&D-based) RPG I was in, we came up with a fun cosmology where there were 6 main planes in 3 opposed pairs (Fire/Water, Earth/Air, Life/Death). What we think of as the "Prime" is actually the plane of Life, and most of the "fantasy" races were actually just outsiders from the other planes (Dwarves were from the plane of Earth, Fey from Air, Elves from Water, most of the Demons from Death, and so on).

Planar travel was common, so most adventures took place where the majority of the group would be Outsiders, but exactly WHICH members were Outsiders would vary from day to day. Not only were the natives immune to Banishment-type spells, Elemental magic of the correct type was stronger and the opposed type was weaker. Sort of a "home-field advantage".

I should probably convert my old notes to 3E, it was a fun setting.

 

[andargor]

In an old campaign for a custom (loosely D&D-based) RPG I was in, we came up with a fun cosmology where there were 6 main planes in 3 opposed pairs (Fire/Water, Earth/Air, Life/Death).

Sounds a lot like the Deathgate Cycle books from Margaret Weis and Tracy Hickman.

Andargor

 

[Spatzimaus]

Sounds a lot like the Deathgate Cycle books from Margaret Weis and Tracy Hickman. :

Never heard of em. I'm not saying it's the most ORIGINAL idea, either, but it wasn't taken from a single source.

It was a modern setting, with more of a Shadowrun-style mix of science and magic, and one of the premises was that the barriers between planes got stronger and weaker in millenial cycles. When they were weak, it was easy for anyone to cross the boundaries, which led to things like Dragons (from plane of Fire) attacking midieval kingdoms. When they were strong, only the most powerful spellcasters could cross or draw elemental power, which led to a situation where the average person thought of it all as superstition.

One side-effect was that many works of "fiction" were actually just garbled stories from the other planes. For example, the events of the novel Dune were based on an actual revolt occurring in the plane of Fire. This sort of thing made it very easy to give each plane a distinct history.