Does Deathwatch see through Mirror Image?

[Len]

I'd say 'absolutely'. The figments don't have any hit points.

How would that work exactly? I don't see anything in the spell description that would tell you anything about the images, or pinpoint the location of the real person. Deatchwatch allows you to:

determine the condition of creatures near death within the spell’s range. You instantly know whether each creature within the area is dead, fragile [etc.]

The illusory images aren't creatures (are they?) so Deathwatch doesn't tell you anything about them. And it doesn't tell you the position of the real person, it just tells you there's a live person in the spell's area. You magically know that "the wizard in front of you is wounded" but I don't think it necessarily tells you "the wounded wizard is the third image from the left". (Similar to knowing approximately how intelligent Hypersmurf is without knowing his exact location.)

 

[Thanee]

You get this information in relation to the creature. It would be pretty pointless, if you didn't know who has which condition.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Len]

You get this information in relation to the creature. It would be pretty pointless, if you didn't know who has which condition.

Yeah, so? Who says that all information in your mind must be keyed to a GPS location? As I said before, I know stuff about Hypersmurf, for example, but I can't tell you where he is right now!

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

You get this information in relation to the creature. It would be pretty pointless, if you didn't know who has which condition.

"There is a creature in that 5' square who is wounded."

 

[Thanee]

I'd rather imagine it like when you look upon a specific creature you simply know the condition, as it is sight based ("Using the foul sight..."), not that it is some sort of weird sense, that tells you in what square creatures with what condition are positioned. There's not really anything in the description pointing that way, or is there?

From a balance point of view it's probably better to have it be rather vague there. It's only a 1st level spell after all.

But as it stands, it certainly allows to pierce illusions, since they won't have any life force and thus are easily reckognized (well, not as an illusion, it could also be a construct or whatnot, but at least that something isn't right there).

Bye
Thanee

 

[nhl_1997]

Related situation.... at least related to some of the responses posted previously.

Suppose deathwatch is active when an "alive", invisible creature in full health approaches enters the deathwatch cone. What would happen?

 

[Thanee]

I'd say nothing, since you cannot see the creature.

Bye
Thanee

 

[ElectricDragon]

determine the condition of creatures near death within the spell’s range. You instantly know whether each creature within the area is dead, fragile [etc.]

Ahhh, but it is not detecting the creature; just its lifeforce (which invisibility does not hide). If the spell can detect which is the real mage hiding in Mirror Image; why can't it detect the almost dead invisible Rogue in the corner? The spell can see through illusions that are figments but not illusions that are glamers?

Right, the last sentence of the Deathwatch spell description sums it up:

Deathwatch sees through any spell or ability that allows creatures to feign death.

No mention of illusions (figments or glamers). Neither Mirror Image nor Invisibility allow feigning death. Both are illusions used for hiding from one's foes. Why should the spell work against one 2nd level illusion and not the other?

My point is why allow such a low-level miscellaneous spell with good uses already gain so much more power and become the definitive detection spell that bypasses all illusion-type spells (even Shadow Conjuration is subject to this spell: it is not alive.) I don't recall any type of illusion granting the illusion of lifeforce; but maybe I missed one or two...

Let the spell determine what it says it can; but not placement. For invisibility: someone in the corner is fragile. For the mage with the mirror images: that spellcaster is fighting off death. No information on the illusions (which are not subjects of the spell anyway: they are not truely creatures even by the definition in the Monster Manual; which includes constructs and undead).

Just my thoughts on the matter. Sorry, Smurf; gotta disagree with you on this one.

Ciao
Dave

 

[Len]

I'd rather imagine it like when you look upon a specific creature you simply know the condition, as it is sight based ("Using the foul sight..."), not that it is some sort of weird sense, that tells you in what square creatures with what condition are positioned. There's not really anything in the description pointing that way, or is there?

From a balance point of view it's probably better to have it be rather vague there. It's only a 1st level spell after all.

But as it stands, it certainly allows to pierce illusions, since they won't have any life force and thus are easily reckognized (well, not as an illusion, it could also be a construct or whatnot, but at least that something isn't right there).

The problem with imagining it that way is that it gives away information which I don't think is justified by the spell description. How about this: You get a mental image of the guy in front of you, and the idea that he's wounded, but unfortunately there's a bunch of identical-looking guys in front if you. (I'm not so sure it's sight-based. "Using the foul sight granted by the powers of unlife" sounds more like flavour text to me. I can't find any definitions for "foul sight" or "the powers of unlife".)

Deathwatch can "pierce" some illusions in certain ways, like you said. If you thought you were looking at quintuplets it would become obvious that it was one guy and some illusions. But I certainly don't think you should allow Deathwatch to automatically pinpoint someone through an illusion. If it worked for Mirror Image, it should remove the miss chance for Invisibility too, which sure doesn't seem right.

 

[Hypersmurf]

(I'm not so sure it's sight-based. "Using the foul sight granted by the powers of unlife" sounds more like flavour text to me. I can't find any definitions for "foul sight" or "the powers of unlife".)

Hmm? "Using... sight..." is a fair indication it's sight-based...

-Hyp.