D&D 5E Does Dispel Magic work on Banishment?

[orangefruitbat]

We had a scenario come up yesterday and the group didn't really come to an agreement on the answer, nor could we find an answer online.

The PC wizard cast Banishment on a demon and successfully banished it to the Abyss. Then, knowing that 10 rounds of concentration were required to make it permanent, the wizard ducked out of sight from the rest of the battle. In the next round, an evil wizard (allied with the demon) cast Dispel Magic to remove the Banishment.

1) Is this legal? (i.e., does DM work on Banishment during the 10 rounds before it becomes permanent)

2) If the answer is Yes, where is the magical effect located that needs to be targeted? Is it the space where the banishment occurs or is it the person of the concentrating spell caster?

My thought was 1) No (the spell is basically akin to Teleport and cannot be dispelled) and 2) Even if the spell could be dispelled, the locus of effect is the person concentrating on the spell as there is nothing to effect in the space where the demon vacated.

Our DM thought 1) Yes (the spell is basically akin to an involuntary Gate that sucks things away) and 2) The locus of effect is the space where the (admittedly invisible and closed) Gate is located.

[Note: both of us agreed that Banishment could be countered by Counter Spell at the moment of casting, but that isn't the scenario here].

Curious on people's thoughts here.

 

[thethain]

I would rule it is effectively immune to dispel.

If you happened to be able to get to where the demon is on another plane, you could dispel it, but since the creature is more than 120ft away, dispel doesn't help.

Reason: Banish targeted the creature, not the area. If you had say, cast a spell which banished all creatures in the area, and continued to do so for the duration (in case another moved into the area) then you could dispel that area-effect banish.

 

[thethain]

Also for the same reason, if you banished something that had dispel magic prepared, it could end it on itself. Since it isn't incapacitated on its home plane, it could attempt to dispel itself each round.

 

[Warmaster Horus]

As long as we're on the topic. Can you use Dispel Magic against a Familiar?

 

[Capn Charlie]

As long as we're on the topic. Can you use Dispel Magic against a Familiar?

I would argue that the familiar is conjured by magic but now exists physically until destroyed. Summon spells without a permanent duration, probably, yeah. Undead being animated, I would think it would snip their strings like marionettes.

 

[CydKnight]

My interpretation is that the only thing that can prevent the Banishment spell from completion would be Counterspell or loss of concentration within the time frame required to make the spell permanent. Assuming you are banishing a creature back to it's original plane of existence:

From the PHB page 217: If the spell ends before 1 minute has passed, the target reappears in the space it left or in the nearest unoccupied space if that space is occupied. Otherwise, the target doesn’t return.

 

[Capn Charlie]

My interpretation is that the only thing that can prevent the Banishment spell from completion would be Counterspell or loss of concentration within the time frame required to make the spell permanent. Assuming you are banishing a creature back to it's original plane of existence:

From the PHB page 217: If the spell ends before 1 minute has passed, the target reappears in the space it left or in the nearest unoccupied space if that space is occupied. Otherwise, the target doesn’t return.

This is an interesting point, could there be a counterspell usage or variant that just knocks out concentration of an ongoing spell? It would make sense that some mage had came up with this.

 

[CydKnight]

Amending my previous post, my interpretation of Dispel Magic could allow the Banishment spell to end prematurely however, my interpretation of both spells would mean the effect that is being dispelled is the creature which is now in another plane.

 

[thethain]

As long as we're on the topic. Can you use Dispel Magic against a Familiar?

Instantaneous effects are typically immune to dispel. You can't dispel the damage dealt from a fireball, or healed through cure wounds. Or teleport someone back away who just landed here with teleport or planar travel (unless the effect is ongoing)

Edit: RAW if the spell is instantaneous, it inherently can't be dispelled.

Instantaneous
Many spells are instantaneous. The spell harms, heals, creates, or alters a creature or an object in a way that can't be dispelled, because its magic exists only for an instant.

 

[GMMichael]

Our DM thought 1) Yes (the spell is basically akin to an involuntary Gate that sucks things away) and 2) The locus of effect is the space where the (admittedly invisible and closed) Gate is located.

This is the answer for two reasons:

1) 5th edition endorses rulings, not rules.

2) Despite that, Rule Zero.