Does Enworld have a major impact in the D20 market?

[Vascant]

This aside I can contribute to. If the push for d20 Software RPG Aids were prevalent enough to warrant its own forum, it definitely would receive one. However, its traffic level would seem proof that there's not a big push or demand for it at present. Here, form follows function wherever possible, and evidence to me indicates even if it had its own forum prominently displayed, the traffic still wouldn't increase. But a glut of posts on developing and testing d20 Aids over a sustained period would definitely indicate a need for such.

Does the phrase "Build it and they will come" ring true here. I can state for certain that what is in place does not work nor created a vehicle to assist in the creation of newer products. Look at the publishers forum, it generates what.. a few posts a day? The fact is we do not take the steps to promote the endeavor for creating d20 software (Or even just RPG in general software), then why would it happen? People complain about quality issues, then why are we (Each and every one of us) not taking steps to get better, do better and achieve better?

*Laughs*
I am just going to sum it up with this.. Why promote the problem when we can use the same effort to promote the solution.

 

[satori01]

I think the greatest impact ENworld has had for me is facillitating dialogue with game designers and their audience. I especially remember in the days just before and after the release of D&D 3.0 you would have WOTC designer posting everywhere.

Very thrilling to actually be able to "Talk" to the designers, where as before communication was principly limited to those that went to Cons and letters to Dragon. I cant tell you how giddy I was when Col Pladoh's secret identity was revealed, truly a holy nimbus of light struck my computer and I bowed in supplication.

I also think the greater communication has also reduced rule oppaqueness to an extent. SKR, Andy Collins, Monte, Mearls and others have come on at some point and either clarified aspects of their work or commented on "the Rules" in general, which overall is a great thing.

 

[Belen]

Third string? What other d20 publisher is higher than them? Mongoose perhaps?

Second point, that they're not the size of WTOC is true but the point is, I doubt they are effected by En World. Each has their own forums and those forums are quite busy in and of themselves.

Sorry, I was thinking the entire RPG industry. Yes, they are 2nd tier d20 publishers according to sales.

However, I maintain that if they have print runs of 10,000 or fewer books, then ENWorld makes a significant impact on their sales. Obviously, we have no real data regarding this, but I do know for a fact that even the big names in d20 are having issues with distributors right now. In fact, Alliance just told my friends that own a game store that they are no longer stocking non-WOTC d20 books unless that receive pre-orders for them.

Unless I ask my friends to stock d20 books these days, they will not bother ordering them etc.

So, it stands to reason that unless hardcore gamers are pre-ordering these books, which means that they have a need to learn about them online, then the distributors are not ordering them as they did before, thus places like ENWorld make a huge impact on print runs of 10k or fewer due to the size of the community and the number of hits generated by the news page.

I could be wrong, but all the info I have seems to say otherwise.

And ENWorld is THE place for d20 on the web.

 

[Mokona]

ENWorld has two impacts that I can think of (though these aren't necessarily original ideas):

1. We "spread the word" by writing reviews, sharing our opinions, and generally making everyone more informed about D20 game material. ENWorld doesn't reach everyone but it reaches a lot of people and people on ENWorld affect the opinions people who've never been near ENWorld.

2. We "plant the seeds" of ideas into D&D. WotC game designers do read these forums and tons of new ideas are suggested or requested all the time around here. The designers who read or hear about our ideas can't help but be influenced. All people are impacted at least a little by the ideas they accumulate in their heads such as by reading them on ENWorld.

 

[Henry]

*Laughs*
I am just going to sum it up with this.. Why promote the problem when we can use the same effort to promote the solution.

If you think that it's worth doing, start a thread in the Meta Forum about this very subject, and see if it can generate support; that way, we won't be hijacking this thread any further, and support can be better gauged for the idea.

By far, if a large number of forum members think that something needs to be done, I'd support it. However, if only a few think it's a good idea, then it's just as likely to "die on the vine," and there's a good bit of effort in separating out a forum only to have to fold it back in again due to lack of support.

 

[Orcus]

I have a feeling that ENWorld plays a significant role in companies with print runs of 10, 000 or fewer books.

Not to give away trade secrets or anything, but even the "big" little guys arent doing 10,000 units anymore. Except WotC.

Clark

 

[Orcus]

Green Ronin, Malhavoc, and Necromancer are not big boys. They are definitely third-string. Great companies, but no where near the size of WOTC.

And by the way, I dont care if we are referred to as third string or second string.

BUT as for distributors I can firmly say that we (SSS/WW/Necro/malhavoc) are having no problems in that area, thankfully. And pre-orders (presuming you mean actual gamers calling or emailing and saying "I will buy that book, here is money), while nice, are substantially eclipsed by normal distributor orders and eventual retail sales. If you mean preorders as retailers calling Alliance and saying to get them 10 copies, then perhaps as a general rule distributors are scaling back what they order. The infamous "d20 backlash." But, luckily, SSS/WW/Necro/Malhavoc books have always traditionally sold well and distributors have no problem ordering them. Would Necro be doing that well solo, if we werent affiliated with SSS? I dont know. My guess is no, so I must be lucky

Clark

 

[philreed]

BUT as for distributors I can firmly say that we (SSS/WW/Necro/malhavoc) are having no problems in that area, thankfully.

I think a lot of this has to do with WW/PSI's excellent bookstore distribution. And as PSI continues to add companies to their mix they gain more strength in the hobby industry, ensuring that all distributors treat PSI well. White Wolf definitely had an excellent idea with PSI and it's nice to see that their efforts are paying off.

 

[Belen]

And by the way, I dont care if we are referred to as third string or second string.

BUT as for distributors I can firmly say that we (SSS/WW/Necro/malhavoc) are having no problems in that area, thankfully. And pre-orders (presuming you mean actual gamers calling or emailing and saying "I will buy that book, here is money), while nice, are substantially eclipsed by normal distributor orders and eventual retail sales. If you mean preorders as retailers calling Alliance and saying to get them 10 copies, then perhaps as a general rule distributors are scaling back what they order. The infamous "d20 backlash." But, luckily, SSS/WW/Necro/Malhavoc books have always traditionally sold well and distributors have no problem ordering them. Would Necro be doing that well solo, if we werent affiliated with SSS? I dont know. My guess is no, so I must be lucky

Clark

Well, Alliance consistently fails in getting Necromancer books to my area. It normally takes them a month or more after release for Alliance to get them into the hands of the gamestore owners. Because of this, the game stores I visit on a regular basis have scaled back on d20 orders because they cannot beat Amazon on price or availability. It is a huge scandal and really hurting a lot of store heres.

And I am pretty well versed here because I have to write montly reports on game/ hobby stores in my area.

 

[William Ronald]

I think that EN World does have an impact on PDF sales but a lesser role regarding book publishers in terms of sales.

However, I think that EN World does have a larger impact on feedback and in helping to create early adopters of products. I would not likely have purchased any PDF products, except for EN World and reading some good reviews. Similarly, good reviews have lead me to purchase such products as Nyambe by Atlas Game, Arcana Unearthed by Malhavoc Press, A Magical Medieval Society: Western Europe by Expeditious Retreat Games, Testament and Hamunaptra by Green Ronin games. Often, I learned more about the products from participating in threads with j.g. browning, Hellcow, and Whisperfoot. In the case of Eberron , I initially was sceptical about the product but after participating in threads with several of the posters here, I picked it up and have found it to have much that I like. In general, I find that EN World has helped me to avoid a problem that I have sometimes seen in gaming groups -- being isolated and unaware of what is going on outside of my group. Now, with the advent of several good publishing companies, there are new rules, new settings, and new products that can help make our games more enjoyable. I think that even WotC has benefitted from third-party products, and the innovative ideas in them. Men of the concepts I have seen in WotC's Unearthed Arcana have parallels in other products, such as action points, honor systems, and other optional rules.

I think the game publishers and developers can benefit from being at EN World to learn not only how well their products are received, but in answering questions and seeing how people are using their products in their games. Perhaps that feedback allows the developers to have a clearer insight into their customers. I believe that good gaming companies have floursished by understanding their customers and making products that appeal to them. So, I would suggest that the ongoing dialogue between developers, reviewers, and the gaming public is perhaps how EN World truly makes a positive impact on the gaming industry.