Does miracle cost XP when killing Mr. T?

[phindar]

Well, its at least a miracle...

 

[Dracandross]

By the rules 5k exp is needed but in the spirit of awarding XP its not. Unless campaing is ending on Mr. T it's not really rewarding for player to nail it.


Id say you have few options:
1) Provide NPC or scroll to avoid one PC losing exp
2) Provide storyexp award for caster worth of 5k exp (specially as T is cr 20 and just getting it down is defeat of challenge, but killing it is a bit more)
3) Make it more 'ritualisitic' wish/miracle and charge exp out of whole group evenly
4) Let caster get some non-exp reward that will be equal in players mind compared to exp
5) Be fair DM and say it's exp free after they have casted it and someone has pondered about the loss.

-Dracandross

 

[UltimaGabe]

Really, by that logic (the logic that it's not worth casting it, since you don't get 5000 xp), you should almost never expend resources on anything but a dragon. Like, say, if you encounter a nasty Bodak in an empty tomb, don't bother throwing any Holy Water or using a scroll of Sunburst ont, because he probably won't have any treasure. So what if he'll kill you? You just lost a scroll of Sunurst! You paid good money for that Sunburst!

See what I mean? So what if you lose some experience? If you didn't cast Miracle or Wish, the Tarrasque would eat you. If you'd rather be dead than lost a couple thousand XP, I'd say go ahead.

Edit: I think this sort of stems from the assumption that many players end up getting in their heads: They're only fighting these monsters and going on these adventures because they want to. Are you assuming that a high-level spellcaster, upon encountering the Tarrasque, can just decide, "Nope, I'm not gonna fight this." and walk away? I'd think Mr. T would have soemthing to say about that. Not to mention all of the other people in the world who were killed and eaten in Mr. T's rampage after the party decides to leave it alone because they might lose some resources.

 

[Presto2112]

Um, unless you were playing the game for the story, and not for the XP.

Yeah, like anyone does THAT in D&D

 

[Nail]

Really, by that logic (the logic that it's not worth casting it, since you don't get 5000 xp), you should almost never expend resources on anything but a dragon.

There are lots of resources that don't "cost" anything to the players: actions, spells, hit points, etc.

In addition, 3.5e is built on the assumption that a small amount of the PC's wealth is spent on "expendibles", and that the wealth generated per encounter will compensate for that loss.

3.xe D&D is NOT built on the premise that defeating a challenge will require a PC to lose significant XP. Moreover that XP loss is just confined to one party member; the others get lots of XP. Such a premise, IMO, is just lame. Lame, lame, lame.

IMC, I'd rig it so that everyone has fun and gets rewarded. But hey, that's just me I guess.

 

[nittanytbone]

The rest of the party should in theory recognize the sacrifice made by one of their own and make it up to the clerical caster of Miracles with a bonus share of treasure or something.

 

[pawsplay]

Well, CR 20 nets 6000 xp for a level 20 group. So while one caster does lose out if you're splitting, say, four ways, you still net gain. And it's even better for a level 18 group.

But there's your incentive to find a creative way to deal with the Tarrasque.

 

[Infiniti2000]

Um, unless you were playing the game for the story, and not for the XP.

Wait, did you just put "tarrasque" and "story" in the same sentence? Okay, not technically, you didn't, but the implication there is strong! Talk about a regular miracle . . .

 

[Dracandross]

Well, CR 20 nets 6000 xp for a level 20 group. So while one caster does lose out if you're splitting, say, four ways, you still net gain. And it's even better for a level 18 group.

But there's your incentive to find a creative way to deal with the Tarrasque.

But hey I also mentioned that KILLING is not neccessary to deal with encounter just overcome it somehow. There was a thread about Mr. T and how to keep it down without killing. So you could get 6k exp without spell expenditure. And yes its not all about exp but that just doesn't sound fun to me.

Also someone noted that its same as using 5k exp than using holy water or anything similar low cost. Hey 5k is 1/4th of level even at 20. It could be counted as 25k money too whough 1:5 ratio isnt quite worthwhile in all cases. Compared to total wealth of char that is also major contribution for one char.
I'd still say that if wish/miracle is needed for example scroll should be provided. In our game its not that easy to go shopping for magic items. But if party can just go for local magic store and split about 30k gold for scroll thats good and was one of my options. I'd call it boring if everyone else got 1/4th level and I didn't for doing such great job. And I'd also never bring that up to one player only in the group.

-Dracandross

 

[Bloosquig]

I remember a campaign I played in once where exp came up. We had been playing a while and we were all in our low mid teens and I was about a half a level behind everyone else because my gnomish illusionist had a tendancy to burn exp on items and limited wish spells.

Anyway the point is that having the power to make levitating invisible anvils attached to chains (yes that was one of my stranger inventions after too little sleep) comes with a price. That is the fact that you'll never be as experienced as the rest of the group but a true mage understands that and loves it anyway.