D&D 5E Does Surprise round give you advantage to attacks?

[Prakriti]

The rule is for being hidden 'you have to be unable to be seen clearly, not be totally unseen.'

Imagine a hidden sniper observing his target and then shooting from around a tree or log from 100m away. Hes able to be seen at all times (hes peering over the log or around the tree) but is still hidden at all times until the attack is resolved.

In that case, I think a ranged attacker can gain advantage as long as they're in a lightly obscured area and/or a long ways off. But I don't think there's any way for a melee attacker to gain the same advantage from hiding. If they jump out from behind a tree with a sword, then they are essentially un-hiding before they make their attack. They can still surprise their target, of course, but they don't get advantage.

 

[Flamestrike]

In that case, I think a ranged attacker can gain advantage as long as they're in a lightly obscured area and/or a long ways off. But I don't think there's any way for a melee attacker to gain the same advantage from hiding. If they jump out from behind a tree with a sword, then they are essentially un-hiding before they make their attack. They can still surprise their target, of course, but they don't get advantage.

No, they still have to be hidden. And you need heavy obscurement or total cover to be hidden (barring elves, skulkers and the like).

 

[Esker]

No, they still have to be hidden. And you need heavy obscurement or total cover to be hidden (barring elves, skulkers and the like).

But I've always played that if you can make your shot from within 5' of heavy obscurement or total cover (and had previously succeeded on your stealth roll) then you count as still hidden for the purposes of that one attack. Otherwise how could you ever have line of sight to make the shot (other than having a vision advantage)?

 

[Flamestrike]

But I've always played that if you can make your shot from within 5' of heavy obscurement or total cover (and had previously succeeded on your stealth roll) then you count as still hidden for the purposes of that one attack. Otherwise how could you ever have line of sight to make the shot (other than having a vision advantage)?

Why are you thunking in 5' squares? This isnt 3.5 or 4e.

You can become hidden with a successful stealth check to Hide (via the Hide action) any time you are unable to be 'seen clearly' and the DM agrees the circumstances are appropriate for hiding.

You can be hidden and peeking over, under or around your cover. Or even maybe through it (a dense bush for example).

As long as you make your attack from that hiding position, you gain the benefit of advantage on the attack. You dont reveal your position till after the attack is resolved (hit or miss).

 

[Esker]

Why are you thunking in 5' squares? This isnt 3.5 or 4e.

I almost always use a grid in combat. If you're running it TotM, then it's a judgment call on the DM's part whether you could make the attack from a position which is close enough to where you were hidden that it doesn't reveal your position until after the attack.

 

[R_J_K75]

(1) There is no surprise round in 5E. There is only the Surprised condition.

(2) You do not gain advantage against targets that have the Surprised condition.

You say that surprise is a condition but yet it doesn't appear on the list of the conditions in the appendix, has this changed with errata?

Surprise in 5E has always seemed clunky to me and it always seems to resolve awkwardly at the table. I don't know the rules as well as I did in other editions, they all blend together for me as I get older and the more editions they put out. Even 6 years into 5E Im always somewhat taken aback at how many rules were changed subtly that I never noticed by just reading the core books, but noticed when then come into play.

 

[Prakriti]

You say that surprise is a condition but yet it doesn't appear on the list of the conditions in the appendix

You're right, it's not a condition. I guess I just think of it that way because it's easier to explain.

 

[R_J_K75]

You're right, it's not a condition. I guess I just think of it that way because it's easier to explain.

It seems like it should be a condition, I don't really understand why it isn't compared to the other ones.

 

[TaranTheWanderer]

(1) There is no surprise round in 5E. There is only the Surprised condition. [Edit: as pointed out later in the thread, Surprised is not technically a condition. It's just easier to think of it that way.]

I meant 'the round in which a character is surprised.' I was trying to be brief. Sorry.

(3) You do, however, gain advantage against targets that can't see you.

Is there an official rule on this? I was looking for it the other day and couldn't find anything. My own ruling is that you have to remain unseen during the attack to get advantage. That means if you jump out from behind a tree, then you don't get advantage, because your target can see you. In other words, the only way to really get advantage is to be in a heavily obscured area, such as darkness or thick foliage.

But I've always played that if you can make your shot from within 5' of heavy obscurement or total cover (and had previously succeeded on your stealth roll) then you count as still hidden for the purposes of that one attack. Otherwise how could you ever have line of sight to make the shot (other than having a vision advantage)?

No, they still have to be hidden. And you need heavy obscurement or total cover to be hidden (barring elves, skulkers and the like).

I don't think any of you are wrong. This discussion just reinforces my original interpretation that it's a DM call to allow advantage. That call is based on Hiding and not surprise though.

Requoting the PHB re: hiding.

"In combat, most creatures stay alert for signs of danger all around, so if you come out of hiding and approach a creature, it usually sees you. However, under certain circumstances, the Dungeon Master might allow you to stay hidden as you approach a creature that is distracted, allowing you to gain advantage on an attack before you are seen."

You must be 'unseen' or sufficiently distracted(the latter usually being a DM's call. I'd rule that someone shooting from a bush or popping out from around a corner in the first round while you are distracted doing something else (ie: were rooting around in your knapsack or focusing on picking a lock just as the sniper steps out from cover) as being sufficiently distracted. But I would decide such things on a case-for-case basis.

Edit: also, it says creatures are alert 'in combat'. Surprise usually happens before -or initiates- combat and characters may not be 'alert for danger'.

Assassins have the closest such ability:

I think I mentioned that in my opening post.

Thanks everyone for the input.

 

[Lanefan]

If they jump out from behind a tree with a sword, then they are essentially un-hiding before they make their attack. They can still surprise their target, of course, but they don't get advantage.

What if the attacker comes from behind, remaining unseen until she strikes?

This is where the old 1e rules for backstrike might come in handy. Everything I've seen of the 5e surprise rules give far FAR too much benefit to the target, IMO.