Does the animal companion grow?

[Xavim]

The big error in your reasoning is that you're viewing the monster advancement HD in the monster manuel as if it were a class. That the creature if it gains exp would progress along this "animal class". The manster advancement was never meant to be applied progressively. You were never ment to take a normal wolf that interacted with the party, and then use the monster advancement rules on that same wolf. The advancement rules are there so you can quickly and eaily throw "super-wolves" at them. The advancement is not a class, its just a tool for DMs to beef up wolves. Not beef up Jimmy the wolf.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

The big error in your reasoning is that you're viewing the monster advancement HD in the monster manuel as if it were a class. That the creature if it gains exp would progress along this "animal class". The manster advancement was never meant to be applied progressively. You were never ment to take a normal wolf that interacted with the party, and then use the monster advancement rules on that same wolf. The advancement rules are there so you can quickly and eaily throw "super-wolves" at them. The advancement is not a class, its just a tool for DMs to beef up wolves. Not beef up Jimmy the wolf.

I mostly agree with you but...Savage Species keeps nagging at me. In there, a monstrous character can get bigger through gaining experience. There is no distinction made between being a race and a class; they are purposefully melded together.

 

[Zaruthustran]

The big error in your reasoning is that you're viewing the monster advancement HD in the monster manuel as if it were a class. That the creature if it gains exp would progress along this "animal class". The manster advancement was never meant to be applied progressively. You were never ment to take a normal wolf that interacted with the party, and then use the monster advancement rules on that same wolf. The advancement rules are there so you can quickly and eaily throw "super-wolves" at them. The advancement is not a class, its just a tool for DMs to beef up wolves. Not beef up Jimmy the wolf.

The "big error" comes from the PHB saying that animal companions gain attack bonuses, skills, and feats from bonus HD as normal for advancing animals. So... why not size?

-z

 

[youspoonybard]

Because it doesn't say size : P

 

[Xavim]

I mostly agree with you but...Savage Species keeps nagging at me. In there, a monstrous character can get bigger through gaining experience. There is no distinction made between being a race and a class; they are purposefully melded together.

Where does it say that? I know there's a part where the monsters grow but that's just until they reach their normal size.

 

[Xavim]

Alright, I just checked the MM (unfortunately its the 3.0 but it should be pretty close) and I need to know this. Are the HD the animal companion gains considered HD in another class such as multi-classing, or do they say they are animal HD. Because if those HD are not from another class, then any HD increase results in the animal changing size.

"A creatures monster class is always its favoured class, and the creature never suffers XP penalties for having it. Additional Hit Dice from a character class never affect a creature's size."

The thought that an animal companion actually COULD grow, is just damned cool.
[EDIT
Okay, I just looked up the Druid advancement and it expllicitly says that the creature gains bonus HD of the monster's type. Thus, since these bonus HD are monster HD, not class levels, the animal would grow.]

[also edit: Holy crap]

 

[Legildur]

Search Andy's message boards. He also gave some reasoning. He didn't think it would be wise for a druid's chosen animal companion to suddenly double in size and no longer be able to go with the druid into the same dungeons or places as it used to.

Just looking at the Druid's spell list... And I see a little silhouette of a spell (Drd2/Rgr3) called Reduce Animal.

Target: 1 willing animal, Duration of 1 hour per level, dispellable at will by caster.

Seems to me to be an ideal spell for getting an animal companion into places they ordinarily wouldn't fit. And puts a small hole in Andy's above argument.

In fact, the only drawback for the spell seems to be that damage dealt by the animal is reduced (as in reducing weapon size), but there are no further adjustments made to the animal!! Mind you, I'm only working from the SRD here, and maybe the PHB has a more complete description. But the Reduce Person spell lists all the changes to Str/Dex, Size, and AC that come with a reduction, but the animal version doesn't???

Does that mean you could reduce your Dire Wolf to size medium and keep it that way for a dungeon crawl and only lose a bit of damage potential?? Doesn't seem quite right.

 

[Christian]

In fact, the only drawback for the spell seems to be that damage dealt by the animal is reduced (as in reducing weapon size), but there are no further adjustments made to the animal!! Mind you, I'm only working from the SRD here, and maybe the PHB has a more complete description. But the Reduce Person spell lists all the changes to Str/Dex, Size, and AC that come with a reduction, but the animal version doesn't???

It doesn't need to ...

This spell functions like reduce person, except that it affects a single willing animal. Reduce the damage dealt by the animal’s natural attacks as appropriate for its new size.

(emphasis mine)

It refers to the reduce person spell precisely to avoid having to repeat the details of the spell effect. Notice, for example, the the Cure Critical Wounds spell does not indicate that it damages rather than heals undead. That information occurs only in the Cure Light Wounds description.

Anything which is not specifically mentioned as changed operates the same way as for the spell referenced.

 

[Legildur]

It doesn't need to ...

Mmmmm, quick, everyone look the other way while I erase that [now] obvious mistake I made. Thanks Christian, you are so right. I can't believe I read over that first part of the sentence!!!

 

[Hypersmurf]

Just to be clear on this:

Andy Collins has stated his opinion on how all of this was intended to work. You are free to think that his comments have no effects on the rules as they stand, but it is very likely that any errata will make the rules conform to his statements on the subject. In other words, if you want to use the official rules as they are released, you might as well follow his advice now so that you don't need to switch when the errata is released.

From the 3.5 PHB Errata:

Animal Companion
Player’s Handbook, page 36
Contrary to the text, a druid’s animal companion is not
treated as a magical beast; it remains an animal.
Trim the first paragraph of the sidebar so that it reads as
follows:
A druid’s animal companion is superior to a normal
animal of its kind and has special powers, as described
below.

-----

Double or nothing?

-Hyp.