Does the DM guide...

[DarkLord Of DForce]

include the stats for the monsters that you face at each level? I'm assuming it would.

We had a session last night where we were fighting Drow. Inquisitors and things like that. We are at level 9. We knew we were in trouble when our Ranger got 2 29's on Twin Stike on the first target and he missed both.

Nothing in the attack group had less than 28 arrmor, and they all had +22 and higher to hit.

We were fighting to stop them from interrupting 3 friendly mages that were holding back a Drow ritual to warp in a level 27 Balor....

Anyone think our DM had it in for us?

 

[Mort_Q]

Anyone think our DM had it in for us?

Was it a TPK?

If yes, then yes. If no, then no.

 

[Skallgrim]

Anyone think our DM had it in for us?

I can't really tell for sure.

A Ranger with an 18 prime stat, a +2 proficiency Weapon, and a +1 enchantment would have only been a +11. Their AC would have been 30 at minimum for him to miss. Putting in opponents you can only hit on a 19-20?

The DM is either trying to kill you (very poorly, I might add, as he could just use Orcus and be done with it), or he's not very good at what he is doing, or you guys just screwed up and fought something you were supposed to talk to.


A ranger with a 22 Prime Stat, a +3 Proficiency Weapon, a +2 Enchantment, Weapon Expertise, and Prime Quarry would have been +17. Opponents you need a 13 or better to hit? That's totally fine. They would have been superior to you, but presumably fewer in number (or maybe it was an 'above level' fight). The level of the "Big Bad" that is held in statis is irrelevant (maybe). If he's not supposed to escape, then it doesn't matter if he's level 2, or level 300. He's plot.

I suspect, however, that this is DM incompetence (but am reserving judgement). It sounds too much like a guy who DMed for me years ago. He would throw us against these insanely tough monsters. I would balk ("What are we going to do? We're THIRD level!). His regular group would shrug and attack them. The huge monster would miss with all of its attacks, and someone would, say, clamber up on its back and drive a spear into it's brain, and we would win. I don't know why we had character sheets when everything was resolved with narrated actions, ultimately.

 

[Mentat55]

The DMG contains guidelines to create monsters. These include hit points, defenses, attack bonuses, and damage. All of these depend on level. Published monsters generally follow these guidelines.

At level 9, you'd expect equal level opponents to have ACs from 21 to 25, other defenses around 21, and attack bonuses in the +12 to +16 range. So yeah, he was using opponents more than 5 levels higher than your party, it sounds like. This is generally not recommended, and you discovered why. It is especially bad if you use a soldier type monster of much higher level than the party, because they have very high ACs and very good attack bonuses.

 

[Blackbrrd]

We had an encounter like that, but there were TWO opponenets. One had impossible high defenses, the other loads of HP. When you killed the one with loads of HP the summoning of the other one failed and he disappeared. - It might be something like that.

 

[DarkLord Of DForce]

Okay, I had to cut that first message a bit short (ongoing stuff here at home), so just to fill in what I left out, it wasn't a TPK - the level 27 Balor was a plot item, as one responder noted.

We were able to keep the incoming Drow busy enough to allow the 3 wizards to close the portal and keep the Balor from warping in. The DM threw some of the friendly NPCs in there to help us when a side wall collapsed and yet another group of Drow charged in, so it all worked out in the end, none of us died, though all of us were bloodied, and I personally was down to 19 HP at one point. We had a friendly cleric who was a big help - I think at least a few of us would have died without his aid.

Several of us thought that we were fighting a fair bit beyond what we should have normally seen at level 9. Makes me kind of wonder how things are gonna be once we get beyond Paragon.

At the point where our Ranger missed with 2 29's off of TwinStrike, I said to the DM, "he missed with 29's?!", and he replied something like, "what do you expect, the Drow do nothing but train all their lives to be soldiers". <shrugs>

Thanks for the replies, and sorry I had to cut that first message off a bit short before I could fully explain.

 

[Nytmare]

Every once in a while, when I run monsters out of a book, I realize, though I'm on the right page and started off looking at the right monster, that I've wandered off into the wrong stat block.

Might your DM have started you off facing a bunch of Drow Warriors, and then accidentally wandered over to a Blademaster?

 

[DarkLord Of DForce]

Every once in a while, when I run monsters out of a book, I realize, though I'm on the right page and started off looking at the right monster, that I've wandered off into the wrong stat block.

Might your DM have started you off facing a bunch of Drow Warriors, and then accidentally wandered over to a Blademaster?

I suppose that's possible. Next session, I'll hint around at looking at the stats from the Drow from that encounter.

Thanks!

 

[Mentat55]

Drow Inquisitors are level 15 soldiers. Would be tough nuts for a level 9 party to crack: AC 31, +22 attack bonus.

Does this happen regularly in the game? Maybe your DM just wanted to force you on your heels for a bit, though I am not a big fan of having to rely on NPC allies. If I wanted a near impossible battle, I would have used level 9-11 drow, but just used wave after wave after wave to press the party.

 

[eamon]

I've had a DM once who wasn't the most mechanically interested, and he'd not have the intuition to catch the (inevitable) mistakes or misinterpretations. Like when he misread clay scout's attack's range for the attack bonus. +10 vs. Ref against 1 level characters? . Riiight.

I'm just happy it was the attack he misread - at least then you can still actually hit it (barring the fact that it was a clay scout that always hit you; so usually you'd end up hitting your allies instead...).