Does the KotS Half-Elf Cleric need fixing?

[Reaper Steve]

I seem to recall reading a thread or two that the KotS Half-Elf Cleric isn't built very well. (Beyond missing the racial at-will as an encounter power and the diplomacy and insight bonuses.) I thought that people were saying that the character just wasn't built well. Not necessarily that it wasn't optimized, but more that it seemed to have been made with poor choices.

I haven't really dived into character creation and explored the options and combos--I've been running games with pre-gens due to time constraints, lack of books at my deployed location (I'm the only one with a PHB... thanks again for not shipping my preorder, Amazon!), and the desire to just play to learn the rules.

Today it seemed like the guy playing the H-E Cleric was having a rough time. Couldn't hit anything, never seemed to have a good choice to contribute, etc., which made me remember their were some complaints about the build.

So, is there a consensus that the H-E Cleric needs to be fixed?
If so, any suggestions as to how to do so?

Thanks,
Steve

 

[kouk]

It is definitely built "suboptimally," but not a terrible character. All the pregens used the standard ability array as opposed to point buy (except the downloadable tiefling warlord) so that would allow some more customization/optimization were you to use that.

We haven't used the pregens more than one session before we made our own characters, but looking at it a few things jump out at me:

This is mostly a ranged, or, "lazer" cleric as people call it. The character focuses mostly on ranged Wisdom-based spells.

The level 1 encounter power is counter to what he is built for, as it is a melee power, and that character has much less chance to hit with it than other powers he might have chosen. However, it's the only encounter power that can grant healing surges besides the healing word at that level.

It has a lot of Charisma, but that does little for it. All the Charisma is doing is letting him push Undead farther when using Turn, but you don't really need them to go that far. He could easily change his Charisma and Strength (Base 13 STR switched with Base 14 Charisma). That would give him another bonus to hit and more damage, which could help.

The lack of the half-elf power is a big deal I think, more options are always great.

The level 2 feat is a bit unimpressive. The bonuses are always helpful, but a player would probably choose something else first.


I would recommend setting aside time in your next session for everyone to make their own characters. It can really help to know what you can do, know that you built yourself for certain things, and have a bit more connection to the characters, and you're bound to learn some more of the rules that way.

As an aside, if you were curious about how the pregens differ from the core rulebooks, you can check this thread: http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?p=16165243#post16165243

 

[Olfactatron]

Yeah. It's garbage. The encounter power can't hit reliably, and his stats are all wrong. And it's missing an encounter power for being half elf.

 

[Reaper Steve]

As an aside, if you were curious about how the pregens differ from the core rulebooks, you can check this thread: http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?p=16165243#post16165243

Thanks. Unfortunately, I cannot access Gleemax from my present location.

Has anyone rebuilt this character? I'd like a proper starting point...

 

[Thanee]

Well, the biggest problem that cleric has is, that the powers mostly target Reflex, and the opponents in the adventure (especially early on) have huge Reflex defenses.

Also, Healing Strike seems a little odd, as he doesn't seem to be much good in melee; and it doesn't work when it doesn't hit. I would choose Divine Glow instead.

Other than that, and the missing encounter power, which should be something WIS/CHA related (the Warlock's Eldritch Blast or Eyebite would work well, or maybe the Paladin's Bolstering Strike), he looks fine, really.

Well, Skills could be chosen better, I guess... Diplomacy and/or Insight would make sense for him, and he can probably drop History and/or Arcana (or even Heal, though Heal is a fitting choice for a cleric) for those.

I also think the stats are fine (maybe STR isn't needed as much (could be swapped for DEX or INT, which would be more useful for Skills and give some Reflex defense at least), but WIS/CHA/CON as the highest three makes sense for a ranged cleric; he should just stay away from the melee powers then).

BTW, funny how he has a shield on the picture... since clerics don't even get shield proficiency from the class.

Bye
Thanee

 

[phil500]

Thanks. Unfortunately, I cannot access Gleemax from my present location.

Has anyone rebuilt this character? I'd like a proper starting point...

i dont think you can really make a decent half-elf cleric since they dont get +2 to anything the class hits with.

my fave build for clerics is a dwarf with str 16, wis 18, cha 12, con 14. dwarven weapon training lets him use maul hitting for 2d6+5. take righteous brand and the temp hp lazer (mostly to allow saves).

 

[Ingolf]

He's a mess. Lots of attribute points sunk into Charisma for no benefit whatsoever, poorly chosen skills, poorly chosen race - he's just a mess. The worst put-together character in the module.

I re-worked him into more of a battle cleric to better fit the preferred playstyle of the player who ended up with him in my group. I'd suggest a similar approach - recreate the character as your player might have made him up in the first place, or just let the player build a new cleric from the ground up.

 

[Thanee]

Charisma is the 2nd most important attribute for a Cleric (after Wisdom, obviously), that does not go the melee route... how is Wis 16 Cha 16 bad?

Sure, you do not get the very nice Righteous Brand, but that's not an absolute must to build every Cleric around that power.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Ingolf]

Charisma is the 2nd most important attribute for a Cleric (after Wisdom, obviously), that does not go the melee route... how is Wis 16 Cha 16 bad?

Sure, you do not get the very nice Righteous Brand, but that's not an absolute must to build every Cleric around that power.

Bye
Thanee

Sure - I am not arguing that a high Charisma sucks for a non-melee Cleric. I am arguing that this particular non-melee Cleric sucks, and part of the reason is that he was built with a nice 16 Charisma but gets very little in return - no trained skills based on Charisma, only one chosen power that leverages Charisma, etc. If the guy isn't going to train Diplomacy (and Insight, which is Wisdom based but still a better choice than History) and if he's not planning to pick up any good Charisma-oriented powers like Command, then he might as well have a Charisma of 12 and sink those points into something he will use.

 

[Thanee]

It just did sound a bit like Cha was generally useless for Clerics. Ok.

Right now, he won't get a whole lot out of his Charisma, but thinking about future development, there are many powers which benefit from Wisdom and Charisma.

I totally agree with the skills... especially as a Half-Elf he should get Diplomacy/Insight. But that's easily fixed without changing the character completely.

Bye
Thanee