Doing away with Class Skills

Whilst I appreciate that the current class-skills may leave something to be desired, and may unduly encourage stereotyping, I would argue that there are two very good reasons for keeping ti as written: logic and balance.

On the logic front, we have to ask what the typical (though not strictly stereotypical) member of the class is likely to have ACCESS to. It is improbable that a cleric would be trained in Tumble for example, and nigh impossible that a barbarian would have Knowledge (Nobility and Royalty). Class skills represent the realistic access to the skill, and should be seen an a reality-enhancing tool rather than a straightjacket. If certain skills are really required, there are a few solutions: Cosmpolitan from FR is one, multiclassing is another. From the description of your grey elven fighter, he is probably a multiclass aristocrat/fighter: this would achieve all of the desired skills bar Tumble, which could be taken with Cosmopolitan.

Regarding play balance, we have to bear in mind what makes the ranger and barbarian preferable to the fighter. The ranger is superior to the fighter principally in skills. The spell selection available is virtually trivial compared to the main strengths of the class, and the bonus feats are easily nullified by the fighter (by top-level the fighter can take all the ranger's free feats and have seven surplus). The ranger's only key advantage is destroyed. As for the barbarian, disposing of his skill advantage leaves him with rage, minimal DR and fast movement: hardly worth 11 feats. It is these two classes which will suffer most as the fighter moves in on their portfolio. And regarding the point of people generating background to fit 'class skills', this is a moot point. Experienced roleplayers can make a background to fit anything. I'm sure any of us here could make a background justifying why your fighter should have a plethora of skills- but in order to keep a level playing-field, the rules should be adhered to.
 

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Dagredhel ,

You can easily skirt around the issue of class/non-class schools by a bit of multiclassing.

I think your character could easily be modelled as a Aristocrat/Fighter or Bard/Fighter. Or even Rogue/Fighter. Cosmopolitan is a good bandaid in a pinch, too.

3e works just fine modelling this character. You just can't assume that he is a vanilla single-class Fighter.

The rules are not perfect, but you should use them correctly before throwing up your hands and asking for freebies.
 

Ridley's Cohort said:
Dagredhel ,

You can easily skirt around the issue of class/non-class schools by a bit of multiclassing.

I think your character could easily be modelled as a Aristocrat/Fighter or Bard/Fighter. Or even Rogue/Fighter. Cosmopolitan is a good bandaid in a pinch, too.

3e works just fine modelling this character. You just can't assume that he is a vanilla single-class Fighter.

The rules are not perfect, but you should use them correctly before throwing up your hands and asking for freebies.

Yes, my character was best converted as a multiclassed one, a Fighter/Rogue. That was the best choice for conversion to 3E, and the one on which I settled. To approximate the character's 2E capabilities required a few extra levels, but no big deal.

But the character's conversion was only what started me thinking. Dagredhel has been retired for years. I'm not looking for an edge up in a current playing situation, so 'asking for freebies' wasn't my intent.

Getting some input and different perspectives from other enthusiasts who don't tremble at the mere thought of rules variants was what I was after, thanks.:rolleyes: :rolleyes:
 
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Dagredhel said:


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Amazing. Everyone should check this out.

Outergod
 


Cross Class Skills

Apparently, several regulars here have been kind enough to make note of my work. Thanks :D

While I do try to give all rules the respect of the written word they deserve, ultimately, I feel some need to be altered to suit my tastes and personal preferences toward logical consistency, common sense, and realism. So while I realize greater realism isn't always the point, and never make the mistake of thinking greater realism always leads to a greater game, I often feel the games are better when such realistic considerations can be brought to bear with minimal fuss.

The cross class skill system in 3e, I felt, no longer made as much sense as it did in 2e where classes were more rigidly fixed and class balance was a larger issue. But to go on at length about that here would be prohibitive. If interested in my thinking on this matter, and I hope you are, here are some relevant URLs.

My Home Page: http://villa.lakes.com/JamesStarlight/index.html

The Cross Class Skill Article: http://villa.lakes.com/JamesStarlight/CrossClassSkills.html

The Class Balance Article: http://villa.lakes.com/JamesStarlight/3eClassBalance.html

And I always welcome feedback. So if you ever drop by to peruse my site, I thank you kindly.

Jim.:cool:
 
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