D&D 5E Don't play "stupid" characters. It is ableist.

[Faolyn]

@Faolyn - Do you see where the confusion can come in when this subject is broached? Charlaquin is clearly implying to avoid it, regardless of intent. You are saying the fault lies with intent. The OP post stated:

Yes, I do see the confusion. And I do agree with Charlaquin. In my mind, don't make fun of real people, but if the completely in-game mockery is upsetting someone at the table, don't do that either.

And since we don't know what ad_hoc meant when they said "stupid," we can't really rely on that definition.

It does not say when you play stupid characters with the intent of mocking, it just says when you play stupid characters.

I feel everyone here can agree that the intentional mocking of a real person for their intellectual handicap is abhorrible. It is the lowest of the low. And, thank goodness, my friends and I never played that way - even as teens. But, presenting a doltish person with other traits as a fantasy character - I think that is where the community becomes split?

My other thing, though, is that I think it's fully possible to play a doltish character without actually making fun of real people. It's the difference between playing a character who is gullible, makes dumb choices, or misunderstands things and does things like this

and playing a character who goes out of their way to do stupid (and often game-disruptive) things like saying "Hur dur, I'm so dumb I think I'll pull this lever that says 'pull this lever to summon a a hoard of demons'."

 

[Argyle King]

Easy: You'd need to actually assault or kill someone before a play experience is considered real.

Or, as an example: In a recent session of my game, they encountered a BBEG who--according to my notes--was going to flee if reduced to half hp or below. Welp, apparently hexblades can do a metric ton of damage on a critical smite and so the BBEG left pretty quickly, leaving his expendable guards to their squishy deaths at the PCs' hands. And so the party--especially the hexblade--has decided that this BBEG is a coward and are making fun of him for it, calling him a pathetic coward and the like. Just wait until he returns. <evil DM laughter>

This is in-game mockery. This is making fun of a specific individual for a specific perceived trait that the BBEG demonstrated.

But this thread is about making fun of a group of of real world people for an inborn trait. It's not about people who are saying, "How many times have we told you not to touch everything you see, you numbskull?!" to the party's rogue. It's about people who are acting in a stereotype of "stupid" people because it's either funny to them or they think it's how "stupid" people act. It would be like playing a gay character by lisping.


I don't see how "don't be a dick" is the same as "these games cause mass shootings!"

Well... there's a guy who had cartoons about that.

Hence some of my previous comments.

As I've also said -sure, I completely agree that mocking real-life people is bad. At the same time, much like those old cartoons, ignoring context and details can be a repressive exercise.

 

[Argyle King]

Did you intend to use the term 'mental' here pejoratively?

I did not.

I suppose there could be an argument made for thinking being a physical activity because it works the brain.

 

[Faolyn]

Well... there's a guy who had cartoons about that.

Jack Chick? He was pretty much against everything, so he really doesn't count.

 

[Weiley31]

Does that mean Neverwinter Nights 1 and Arcanum: Of Steamwork and Magic were wrong in making your character, if they were below I think 9 or 8 in INT, basically have the text speech box for your character become "Dumb Speak" and you sounded like a complete idiot?

 

[BookTenTiger]

Does that mean Neverwinter Nights 1 and Arcanum: Of Steamwork and Magic were wrong in making your character, if they were below I think 9 or 8 in INT, basically have the text speech box for your character become "Dumb Speak" and you sounded like a complete idiot?

Yes

 

[Bolares]

Does that mean Neverwinter Nights 1 and Arcanum: Of Steamwork and Magic were wrong in making your character, if they were below I think 9 or 8 in INT, basically have the text speech box for your character become "Dumb Speak" and you sounded like a complete idiot?

.... yup

 

[Lanefan]

A character with 8 strength can carry 120lbs on their back while sprinting.

This isn't about stats.

Well, it is about stats; and that some of the rules surrounding such are ludicrous (e.g. your example above) doesn't change that.

5e's carrying-capacity rules in general...well, the less said the better.

 

[Redwizard007]

A character with 8 strength can carry 120lbs on their back while sprinting.

This isn't about stats.

Isn't it? Portraying a below average Int score seems to be the primary driver of the conversation.

 

[Umbran]

Taking that further, my next question would be: how interactive does a play experience need to be before it is considered real?

So, the point here is that the issue at hand isn't the interactive play experience being too real.

Imagine you have a bunch of guys, drinking beer and talking. And they start trading around some really sleazy, misogynistic crap. Now, add in playing poker. Or bowling. Or smoking cigars. Or watching football. In all these cases, you have a group normalizing misogyny among themselves - they develop and reinforce the habit that tells them that this behavior is okay. They protect and encourage each other to think this way.

If you have them playing D&D instead, it's still normalizing misogynistic crap. What game they are playing isn't the issue - it is the social normalization of the behavior that is concerning.