Doppelgangers v. new players

[Barendd Nobeard]

Hi. I'm running a game of 1st ed. mods converted to 3.5. I've got five players--2 adults and 3 children (10 years old).

I've managed to get two doppelgangers to tag along with the party. The party is fairly normal: human archer (with aasimar monk cohort), half-orc barbarian, half-orc cleric, halfling rogue, and human wizard.

Since most of them are not experienced players (one of the adult players has some 2nd ed. experience and one of the kids (my son) has been playing 3.xe for about three years). I have (so far) restricted the game to PHB only, just to make it easy to run and easy to learn for the new players.

So, I'm just wondering... how mean should I be with the doppelgangers? It would be pretty easy to take out the party with them. But I don't want to discourage new players by wiping them out after a few sessions. I'm especially worried about wiping out one of the children's characters, but I don't really want to meta-game that worry into a "the doppelgangers will only attack the adults' characters" strategy.

I'm considering killing the cohort. As a less powerful character, it'd be easier for a doppelganger to overpower and kill, so it's a natural choice.

Aside from that, any thoughts on what to do?

 

[demiurge1138]

Start with the cohort, definitely. Then move on to the PCs. Once the cohort is dead (I assume stabbed to death in the night or some such), they should be suspicious of betrayal, especially if there was something obvious like a doppel on watch. Have faith in your players; they'll figure it out.

Demiurge out.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Posting from Southern California: What's the dopplegangers' motivation for wiping out the party? If their goal can be completed in another way, do so. The players will learn about the dangers of dopplegangers without getting the not-fun-your-first-time experience of making a new character. I'd find a motivation that allows them to knock out, tie up and replace party members instead of killing them.

Pick a future module the characters are aiming towards, and have the dopplegangers need an armed escort there. Once there, they blackmail the party into doing something they wouldn't normally do -- which is why they didn't just hire them as bodyguards to begin with -- in return for information on the location of the captives. (Who, of course, will have broken free by now and be heading their way to kick some shapeshifting butt.)

 

[Storyteller01]

Nastiest thing I ever did with Doppelgangers is make their detect thoughts ability equivalent to illusion saves (ie; you don't get one unless you have reason to believe you need one).

Goodman Games has a nice take on Doppels in their book (they have a cleric-ish class for them as a free download. It's called a geist speaker, if your interested). doppelgangers are part of clans, and each clan seeks to wipe the other out believing that the last surviving clan will ascend.

Creepy part is the lifecycle proposed in the book. Doppels gain mass as they age. Middle aged doppels are mimics (the ones you find in the dungeons are the results of isolation and poor living). Old Doppels are the size of buildings, about as mobile, and can link telepathically with other doppels for several miles. Their also the only ones capable of birthing (see 'budding') new doppels and housing the memory pools.

The books premise (a truely EVIL DM tool) is that you can walk into a doppel conquered town, and every aspect of it (including streets, buildings, sidewalks, the stack of 2 x 4's, people, etc) is a doppelganger. No one would know that it had been taken, unless you notice that the people don't talk as much.


You could use this to your advantage: The doppels have joined the group to manipulate them into doing their work for them. You know, attacking the assassins guild while the doppels clan slowly take over its leaders, revealing and killing a doppel who just happens to be from a rival clan, guarding a caravan of supplies that happens to be full of disguised doppels (middle aged doppels lack mobility), etc.


You won't have to take out the party until it's outlived its usefulness. By then, the party shoud have a ffighting chance.

 

[Barendd Nobeard]

Start with the cohort, definitely. Then move on to the PCs. Once the cohort is dead (I assume stabbed to death in the night or some such), they should be suspicious of betrayal, especially if there was something obvious like a doppel on watch. Have faith in your players; they'll figure it out.

I was actually thinking of having the doppelganger replace the cohort instead of just killing him. Then the party could investigate the "missing" person. We're in A1 - Slave Pits of the Undercity right now and the two doppelgangers are posing as slaves. A large number of actual slaves were freed by the party and decided to leave the slaver's outpost and risk getting home on their own. These two "slaves" decided to stay with the group because they feel "safer."

 

[Barendd Nobeard]

Posting from Southern California: What's the dopplegangers' motivation for wiping out the party? If their goal can be completed in another way, do so. The players will learn about the dangers of dopplegangers without getting the not-fun-your-first-time experience of making a new character. I'd find a motivation that allows them to knock out, tie up and replace party members instead of killing them.

Pick a future module the characters are aiming towards, and have the dopplegangers need an armed escort there. Once there, they blackmail the party into doing something they wouldn't normally do -- which is why they didn't just hire them as bodyguards to begin with -- in return for information on the location of the captives. (Who, of course, will have broken free by now and be heading their way to kick some shapeshifting butt.)

You know, to be honest, I hadn't really thought of a motivation for the doppelgangers.

Thanks for the suggestions--it opens up a lot more possibilties if there's some motivation besides "kill them and take their stuff" for the doppelgangers!

 

[Barendd Nobeard]

Nastiest thing I ever did with Doppelgangers is make their detect thoughts ability equivalent to illusion saves (ie; you don't get one unless you have reason to believe you need one).

Goodman Games has a nice take on Doppels in their book (they have a cleric-ish class for them as a free download. It's called a geist speaker, if your interested). doppelgangers are part of clans, and each clan seeks to wipe the other out believing that the last surviving clan will ascend.

Creepy part is the lifecycle proposed in the book. Doppels gain mass as they age. Middle aged doppels are mimics (the ones you find in the dungeons are the results of isolation and poor living). Old Doppels are the size of buildings, about as mobile, and can link telepathically with other doppels for several miles. Their also the only ones capable of birthing (see 'budding') new doppels and housing the memory pools.

The books premise (a truely EVIL DM tool) is that you can walk into a doppel conquered town, and every aspect of it (including streets, buildings, sidewalks, the stack of 2 x 4's, people, etc) is a doppelganger. No one would know that it had been taken, unless you notice that the people don't talk as much.


You could use this to your advantage: The doppels have joined the group to manipulate them into doing their work for them. You know, attacking the assassins guild while the doppels clan slowly take over its leaders, revealing and killing a doppel who just happens to be from a rival clan, guarding a caravan of supplies that happens to be full of disguised doppels (middle aged doppels lack mobility), etc.


You won't have to take out the party until it's outlived its usefulness. By then, the party shoud have a ffighting chance.

Wow! I see that I'm going to need this book! It sounds like a great read, at the very least. And I was looking for something as a side trek before we get into the G1-2-3 series later on (I'm planning on going A1-2-3-4, I6 (Ravenloft), G1-2-3 (Giants), D1-2-3 (Descent/Drow), and ending with Q1). This might be just the ticket to get them a bit more powerful before tackling the Giant series. Thanks for the input!

 

[Storyteller01]

Wlecome!

The also intro's new uses for their Detect thoughts ability (a thoughtweave skill). One is actually recording your memories into the memory pool. A doppel with sufficient skill can become an 'avatar' for a previously killed doppel (and can even re-record it into the memory pool with the new memories). your party may kill these two, just to have them come back later!

 

[TheAuldGrump]

Heh! I have had an awful lot of fun with doppelgangers! Not just as adversaries either - for example - what do you do when you find out that the ruler has been replaced by a dopplelganger... who is doing a better job than the original did? And is being a nicer person to boot?

The doppelganger is a body double hired by the person he is imitating.

The doppelganger is just having fun messing with people's minds. (The original is wandering arouns somewhere else, and comes back to find that he has ordered 12 large pizzas* or something... and the dilivery boy can describe him.)

The dopplegangers are imitating no one in particular, just blending in with the populace.

The doppelganger is imitating someone to hide the fact that he is dead. Not killed by the doppelganger, but by somebody else the doppelganger having been hired by the victim's allies.

The Auld Grump

*Look! a flying purple anachronism!

 

[frankthedm]

No need to kill them, the dopples just tag along as xp sponges and getting thier share of the loot the party scores. If a PC does die where the others can't see him, a doppler can even try to impersonate the person who just died and loot the original so the party doesn't get too rich from character death.

a mole in the group of up and coming heroes can make a LOT of money selling them out and gyping them. Item being ID'ed in town during down time? Dopple shows up first and picks up the item.


I recommend the dopplers keep them around as a resourse. Given doppleganger's abilities, and that all the PCs sound charisma deficient, they could easily become the party's 'Face' to the world.

Make sure they take night watch a few times. Should the dopplers be found out, they offer to work with the party citing the fact that if they were as dangeous as the party thinks, the party would not have woken up on those nights and if they are cast out of the party, many oppotunities will be lost [NPCs won't offer much help to a group that lost its leader OR ones that had dopples in thier midsts.