Double Skill Maxima

[Mike Sullivan]

I understand your situation Mike, we've just come back to playing D&D after a short stint of playing rolemaster. The ability to specialise and make a character competent on first level in their specialty really stood out to us all and I'm looking at changing how we play skills. I was considering upping the max points per skill or doubling the cost for exceeding the normal maximum like you suggested.

The thing I don't like about the "double cost for going past your normal maximum," is that, first, it makes it non-obvious how many effective skill points a given character should have. Second, I think there'll be a big incentive to largely ignore the option, since it's so inefficient.

I also dislike the same-ishness of skill selections and have found that rogues usually tend tend have a basic package of core skills which wll always be maxed out. The skill focus feat would be an alternative but just seems too meagre at +2 (or even at +3 as often house ruled). Perhaps all characters could have a certain number of skills that they could pick to go beyond their normal maximum in?

Hmmm. How 'bout this?

You have a number of "extra" maximum skill ranks equal to your level. You can split these up amongst any skills, or stack 'em all on one skill, if you like. They sit atop your normal maxima for that skill, giving you a new maximum for that particular skill.

Example: A fourth level Rogue has four "extra" max skill ranks. He puts 3 in Hide and 1 in Move Silently. His maximum for all non-Hide and Move Silently class skills is normal -- 7. His maximum for Move Silently is 8, and his maximum for Hide is 10.

 

[Inez Hull]

You have a number of "extra" maximum skill ranks equal to your level. You can split these up amongst any skills, or stack 'em all on one skill, if you like. They sit atop your normal maxima for that skill, giving you a new maximum for that particular skill.

Not a bad idea but I think it probably doesn't go far enough. I'd like to give first level characters a reasonable degree of specialisation, so long as it doesn't rock the balance too far. I might look to a feat based solution. I've found that the feats around skills like skill focus, alertness and some of the others in D20 products are a bit underpowered. My players love having characters with lots of skills (a legacy from years of rolemaster) but would never consider buying any of the existing feats.

I may look at upping skill focus considerably (maybe to + 4 or +5) and make up some feats like alertness which provide a +2 bonus to a package of 3 - 5 skills.

Your thoughts Mike?

 

[Mike Sullivan]

Not a bad idea but I think it probably doesn't go far enough.

Certainly a possibility. You could, of course, also double or triple it.

I'd like to give first level characters a reasonable degree of specialisation, so long as it doesn't rock the balance too far. I might look to a feat based solution. I've found that the feats around skills like skill focus, alertness and some of the others in D20 products are a bit underpowered. My players love having characters with lots of skills (a legacy from years of rolemaster) but would never consider buying any of the existing feats.

I may look at upping skill focus considerably (maybe to + 4 or +5) and make up some feats like alertness which provide a +2 bonus to a package of 3 - 5 skills.

Your thoughts Mike?

The thing about that is that people get feats so infrequently that it's a strangely big jump. Even if you assume that every feat was to be used for skill-affecting stuff, a human has three feats at level 5, and a non-human has two.

Yeah, you can make the feats have really high bonuses to skills, but then all you do is make characters very stair-steppy (big bonus at levels 3, 6, 9, etc.), and make it infeasible to buy normal feats.

I think it would be preferable to keep the size of the skill focus feats smaller (+2 or +3), and give out more feats instead.

 

[Steverooo]

Here's a Fix:

First, "Featify" all the Rogue Abilities... Each D6 of Sneak Attack, Evasion, Improved Evasion, Uncanny Dodge (bonus to AC), Uncanny Dodge (Unflankable), Slippery Mind, Skill Mastery, etc.

Next, allow the Rogue a choice from the "Rogue-Only" list at each level where they would ordinarily get a new or increased Rogue ability. Note that at some levels, they will get two Feats.

Next, add some new Rogue-Only Feats to the list. My rule for this is: Bonuses to skills is limited to +2/2 (ala Alertness) or +4 to one, with perhaps a minor bonus.

Here are some examples to get you started:

Alertness: +2 to Spot/Listen (as in PHB).
Stealthy: +2 Hide/Move Silently.
Improved Trapwisdom: +2 Search/Disable Device.
Perceptive: +2 Sense Motive/Read Lips.
Roughshod: +2 Intimidate/Bluff.
Face-Man: +2 Diplomacy/Gather Information.
Harper: +4 Perform (Harp).
Improved Stability: +4 Balance and against all Trip attempts.
Multilingually Well-Read: +4 Decipher Script.
Language Talent: Learn new languages you encounter at twice the usual rate (as a Class Skill, in game terms).
Magically Intuitive: +4 to Use Magic Device.
Knot Mastery: +2 to Use Rope, and all attacks with a Lasso, or grapnel use (Prerequisite: Rope Use 5+).
Escape Artist: +4 to... ah, you guessed!
Unbindable: +2 to Use Rope/Escape Artist.

Etc., etc., ad nauseum! (Note here that "Scott Free", famous Escape Artist, could have +6 to his skill, and +2 Use Rope at second level, if he maxed out Use Rope and took both Escape Artist and Knot Mastery!)

Now, PCs can bump up multiple skills at the expense of other Rogue abilities. Thus, you may have a Stealthy, Perceptive Rogue with no Sneak Attack, or a high-wire walker with no Evasion. That would certainly be different!

Also, allow Rogues to take these as normal Feats at levels one, three, six, etc. With the exception of Alertness, Improved Stability, and perhaps Roughshod, however, either make most of these Feats Rogue-only, or set the requirements such that only Rogues will be likely to have them... Requiring Ranks in Disable Device and Search will make Trapwise rare for anyone else, etc. Rangers, Rogues, and Monks might take Stealthy.

By allowing Rogues to trade away ordinary Roguish abilities for a permanent skill increase, you will certainly have variety! If you wanted to, you could also set up a "Professional List" of Feats (mostly Rogue-only) and ADD one Feat/5 levels, just like Mages get.