Down with magic items!

hong said:
I've never really had a problem with the whole "magic items are external to a character" issue, because I consider the items to be just as much a part of a character as any other abilities they may have.

That's where I have a split. In D&D, people get visibly ticked off when their armor or weapons are destroyed. In TV and Action Movies, which d20 Modern is meant to emulate, the heroes lose their guns and equipment all the time; they wreck cars, they drop guns, they abuse their equipment to the breaking point and get more. In a fantasy genre, Elric losing Stormbringer would have been tantamount to ripping out part of his soul; when you think of Elric, you HAVE to think about his magic sword.

Where would Arthur be without Excalibur?
Drizzt without Twinkle, Icingdeath, and Guenhwyvar?
Regis without his ruby pendant?

But what we're talking about now is a total paradigm shift. Important magic items are always defined with their owners. In a sense, items can define modern characters, too: What's the first thing one thinks about, when thinking of Clint Eastwood's character Dirty Harry Callahan? What does one think of when thinking of Knight Rider?

But in general, TV and Action Heroes are defined by their style and their abilities; Fantasy Heroes are defined by their unique items, which are as much a part of them as their right arms.

Compare the two: How many first level D&D fighters would consider dropping their swords in a fight, if it meant a slight advantage? How many 12th level Fighters would do it?

Now, how many d20 Modern characters would drop their pistols if it meant a slight advantage? How many 12th level Modern characters would do it?

In the first case, my experience has been "often" and "rarely;" In the second case, my experience has been "often" and "just as often". Equipment can be re-purchased easily in d20 modern; it's why the wealth system works as it does. In D&D, it's not as easy, because you have just lost some of your baseline wealth that contributes to how effective you are in an adventure.

However, if you look around, there's actually several places to find rules that make items more closely tied to a character than just being expendable tools. There's the samurai's ancestral daisho in OA, the "imbued items" article from Dragon 289, and the concept of "nemuranai", or awakened items, in Magic of Rokugan.

And lest we forget, JD Wiker's excellent Swords of our Fathers, which introduces legendary weapons, which I may definitely try to work into our next D&D game somehow. Just the thought of items taking on their own personality work well for that genre.

I will also suggest that if someone wanted D&D to "change genres" and become less Magic oriented and more ability oriented, it would take on a look closer to the d20 Wheel of Time game, than the form it is now. Give PC's a dodge bonus by level, give then fighting styles that improve their bonuses to hit and damage, and even ability score improvements above and beyond that which they receive.

The hacker in d20 Modern doesn't have magic laptops; they have talents like Savant, and skill emphasis, and faith. Martial artists become living weapons as they improve. High level gunslingers can be about 90% as effective with a .22 revolver as they can with a .44 Magnum. As their level increases it doesn't matter; but with D&D characters, their items mean a GREAT deal.
 

log in or register to remove this ad

RangerWickett said:
If you actively want to pursue the "no magic items" route, you might want to take at the superpowers rules in Four-Color to Fantasy. It's true that they are primarily intended for super heroes in comic-book-style adventures, but the powers are balanced for use in any sort of campaign, and we even include a chart to help you accurately convert PC magical wealth into an appropriate amount of super powers.

Low magic, but high fantasy? Why not just have the PCs get magical tattoos that "simulate" magic items?

If you're planning to have dragons and wraiths (along with Michelle Yeoh and Chow Yun Fat skipping through the trees) all over the place, it's not a low-magic world. Deal with it. (...and the fighter with 117 hit points IS magical...)

If the problem is players that don't play their PCs, but play their magic items, then you've got poor players -- taking their magic items away means that they are playing their goofy powers (either from class, race, or FCF) rather than their PCs. In fact, they will pursue the most goofed up combos in order to have a hook for their excuse at roleplay -- in fact, they have to in order to survive in a magical world when they don't have any other access to magic.

OfficeRonin
 

hong said:


If you mean apples and oranges are both fruits, then yeah, probably. :) I've never really had a problem with the whole "magic items are external to a character" issue, because I consider the items to be just as much a part of a character as any other abilities they may have. The problem is that going strictly by the core books, there's little in the way of crunchy bits to support this paradigm: if you have a +1 sword, there's nothing stopping you from throwing it away as soon as a +2 sword comes around.

However, if you look around, there's actually several places to find rules that make items more closely tied to a character than just being expendable tools. There's the samurai's ancestral daisho in OA, the "imbued items" article from Dragon 289, and the concept of "nemuranai", or awakened items, in Magic of Rokugan.

I've munged all these things together to come up with some rules for imbuing magic items that I'm using in my game. Consider the basic feature of item creation, where a spellcaster spends XP (and gp) to create a magic item. A common in-game explanation for this is the creator putting a part of her soul, spirit or essence into the item. The imbued magic rules just extend this idea of imparting one's spirit to one's possessions to everybody, not just spellcasters.

Imbued items have a few other quirks:
- You don't need gp to awaken their magic (although the XP cost is bumped up to compensate).
- They only work for the character who created them. If you kill Bob the orc and pick up his imbued +2 greataxe, it's only a normal greataxe in your hands.

The end-effect is to create a real, tangible link between a character and their items, and has a number of other benefits:
- Since gold isn't required to imbue items, it removes (or weakens) the looting mentality common in D&D. You can play an altruistic, noble-hearted type who refuses to hoard gold or loot dead bodies, and not feel screwed for it.
- It makes planning encounters much less complicated, since I don't have to worry about the golden rule: never give an NPC an item I don't want the PCs to get their hands on.
- All that XP spending means characters take longer to level up, which is good for me, because I like lots of fights in my campaigns. If the PCs never spent all that XP, they'd be levelling up like rabbits.

I really like this idea Hong. Could you elaborate on it a little bit for me, possibly drop me an email at blackshirt5@hotmail.com maybe?
 

:D

I felt that I needed to chime in to say one thing:

Jeph, you should have played in my Return to the Dungeons of the Slave Lords game on Saturday. If you enjoy a minimal level of equipment, those characters each started out with a canvas tunic tied with 5 feet of rope and nothing else! Of course they proceeded to accumulate a wealth of items after the first encounter including a broken chair, a broken small shield, a breastplate with a hole in it, numerous small rocks and a human thigh bone. Riches beyond imagination, I tell you!

At the risk of it turning into a total "Monty Haul" game, I later even let them get their hands on a few javelins and a suit of small leather armor.
 

Slave Lords...woohoo! Man we loved that set when we went through it. Take of clothing put in sand and wrap up to use as a sap. Remember being the proud owner of that thgh bone myself!

I remember a campaign that we had just started, PC's were about 3-4 level. One of the PC's was stabilized at -10 (not sure this was possible but we said it was ok) and then left to be captured. Another gave up during the fighting. When the bad guys later destroyed a MW longbow the players all got hacked off. I was pretty disappointed...this was after we had taked and they wanted a low magic campaign.

Later...a different player started to GM and by 3rd level we had +2 short swords of speed, and who knows what else floating around in the party. The same people who wanted a low magic item campaign didn't complain at all.

It all comes down to the players IMO.
 

Rel said:
Jeph, you should have played in my Return to the Dungeons of the Slave Lords game on Saturday. If you enjoy a minimal level of equipment, those characters each started out with a canvas tunic tied with 5 feet of rope and nothing else!

Heh heh. Hey Rel, something funny is that I did play in that game that morning, along with NCSUCodeMonkey and theDMsGirl. I felt bad once I realized how your game was going because I knew that the players in my game (I ran the Ravenloft game Jeph speaks of) weren't going to have any equipment, either.

Admittedly, later in the game they got access to their 'normal' equipment after cutting a deal with one of the bad guys. :D
 
Last edited:


Remove ads

Top