DR for Minions - 4 + 1/2 level?

[Neonchameleon]

Honestly, I think that arbitrarily preventing Cleave killing a minion is a bad idea - to me that's most of the point of Cleave as focus fire is always more efficient than spread damage. Now two hit minions for minor damage effects are worthwhile.

And minions are never damaged by misses. So rolling and missing won't wipe them out. (But they are annhiliated by effects).

Also re: damage resistance, flaming sphere is still going to chew through them like a hot knife through butter. But I'm with Keterys - bloody from effects (other than MM), kill on a hit.

 

[S'mon]

Hmm, I'm liking the idea of kill if beat DR, otherwise bloody, any further damage = dead. It would need a lot of red paperclips though! Hmm, maybe I can stop into the office supply store...

 

[S'mon]

Also re: damage resistance, flaming sphere is still going to chew through them like a hot knife through butter.

I ran a Wizard PC using flaming sphere at the Meetup yesterday, when his player had to leave early. Trundling it around was great fun, I wouldn't want to nerf it.

I think that given it's a Controller Daily, fair enough it's much better than Cleave, a Defender at-will. We had a big fight with an ogre + hordes of minion archers earlier on, and both the wizard & defender for once had it much better than my Thief, who was reduced to plinking away with Mr Pointy (his magic dagger) for 1 minion/round.

 

[Erudite Frog]

Yeah, good point - one of the first house rules I'd recommended to 4E (whoa, more than 2.5 years ago at this point, how odd):

Remove the existing minion rule, change to
'Minion Weakness
If a minion is hit for any damage, it dies. If a minion takes damage without being hit, it is not killed, but it becomes bloodied and dies the next time it takes any damage in any way.'

So, automatic damage (auras, ongoing, damage shields, etc) would bloody then kill minions, damage on miss abilities (like dailies, hammer rhythm, reaping strike, etc) would bloody then kill, etc.

I kinda like this more than the crazy algorithms I see being tossed around.

 

[S'mon]

Thanks for the input everyone, here's what I've come up with:

Vs PCs, non-Minion NPCs, and environmental effects, minions are killed if they take damage equal to (½ Level)+5. They are bloodied if they take damage equal to half this amount (rounded down). If they are bloodied twice they are dead.

This gives some stickability, avoids having to track minion hit points, yet all but the most pathetic damage will still bloody them, so eg Cleave isn't rendered useless.

Minion Level Damage to Kill Damage to Bloody
1 5 2
2 6 3
3 6 3
4 7 3
5 7 3
6 8 4
7 8 4
8 9 4
9 9 4
10 10 5

This keeps those ubquitous 5-damage effects useful throughout the Heroic tier.

 

[Kerranin]

Sounds reasonable, and you should only have to calculate the values once for any fight. I'll bring paperclips for Sunday.

 

[S'mon]

Sounds reasonable, and you should only have to calculate the values once for any fight. I'll bring paperclips for Sunday.

Thanks Steve. It is Steve, right?

 

[Kerranin]

Thanks Steve. It is Steve, right?

You might think that but I couldn't possibly comment...

 

[S'mon]

I stopped off at the office supply store today and got my own coloured paperclip box - I've sorted them with the red ones at the top!

 

[S'mon]

We played last night with my Damage Threshold minion rules in effect (5+1/2 level to Kill, 1/2 that to Bloody), and the following minions on the field:

PCs:
30 level 7 dwarf infantry
10 level 5 dwarf x-bowmen
20 level 5 human footmen
10 level 8 Thrinian Knights

Enemy:
31 level 8 Drakkarim Marauders
10 level 10 Gnoll Horde Ravagers

The DT system worked very well I think and gave minions just the right level of stickiness; almost anything bloodied them but it took fairly serious damage to kill them right off. The abstracted minion-vs-minion combat system I used was less satisfactory and I will try going without it next time as the main enemy force counter-attacks the bridgehead.

Thanks everyone for your input!