Dragon Cohort Question

[IamTheTest]

If my alignment is LG and I have the feats Leadership [DMG pg. 106 (leadership score of 17)] and Dragon Cohort [Draconomicon pgs. 104 and 138], I can have a Very Young Silver Dragon. My questions are as follows: Can the dragon's Alternate Form be a Human Paladin (or anything with class levels)? If so what level is the paladin (12th because I can have a 12th level cohort? 8th because a very young silver dragon ECL +4? Less? More?)? What abilities does the dragon retain when in human form?

I appreciate your help, I just dont have a good grasp on the Polymorph and Alter Self spells I suppose. Please post questions if you have them, I will try to answer as best I can.

 

[Elephant]

If the dragon has Paladin levels, the dragon has Paladin levels. It won't matter if he's ni alternate form or not.

The level of your cohort is dependent on your level as well as your Leadership score. If you're level 10 with a Leadership score of 17, you can't have a level 12 cohort - you're still limited to level 8.

 

[IamTheTest]

Thanks for the quick reply. My character is a level 12 LG sorceror. I have a +5 Cha modifier so that makes my Leadership score 17 (12+5). So I can have a lvl 12 cohort, right?
How would I give my cohort silver dragon paladin levels?
How many can I give it?

I have never played in a campaign past the 5th level, so please bear with my silly questions.

 

[Elephant]

Reread the Leadership section in the DMG. As a level 12 character, you are limited to at most a level 10 cohort.

As to having a dragon cohort with class levels, that's purely a DM call.

 

[IamTheTest]

Ah, I see it now. I didnt notice the italics under the table. Thanks for pointing that out Elephant. That is one less question.

 

[Elephant]

np! I'm just sorry I couldn't help with the part about the dragon having class levels. In my campaign, I'd probably allow it, but that isn't saying much - I'm not running your game, after all.

 

[dcollins]

You probably can't "give" any paladin levels to your dragon cohort. Without having access to Draconomicon, you generally don't anything for free -- if it says you can get a Very Young Silver Dragon, that's probably it, precisely as shown in the Monster Manual. (No class levels, no "...and a million gold pieces in equipment!" or anything else.)

On the one hand, to get technical, Leadership as given in the DMG doesn't specifically say how to adjudicate monster cohorts. Perhaps you should do it by ECL: but the very young silver dragon has 10HD + 4LA = 14 ECL, which is already over your Leadership limit. You need to look at the specific language in the "Dragon Cohort" feat, and you don't get anything more than that.

On the other hand, polymorphing (such as Alternate Form) never allows you to "create" class levels out of thin air. Look at the description of polymorph in the PHB, where it should say something like the new faculties are "average ones for the race or species into which it has been transformed", that is, no extra class levels or special abilities.

EDIT: Looks like the original poster found the detail in Draconomicon after all. Ah, well.

 

[IamTheTest]

I have access to Draconomicon. The feat Dragon Cohort allows me to subtract 3 from the ECL of the dragon. Table 3-14 Dragon Cohorts (pg 139) has a Very Young Silver labeled as ECL 14. Subtracting 3 from 14, due to Dragon Cohort, gives it an ECL of 11 which is within my Leadership capabilities.

Upon even closer inspection it seems as if I can simply have the Alternate Form be a Human. The next question is, how do I stat that (What is his AC for example)? Would I use the dragon's stats? Forgive me if this is a silly RAW question, it's very late and I may be overlooking the obvious.

 

[dcollins]

There you, go if the Dragon Cohort feat adjusts ECL by -3, then potentially the cohort could have 1 single level of a class, if the DM allows it.

For Alternate Form stats, you have to look at the spell polymorph (which is a legendarily complicated subject, unfortunately). Consider looking at "Rules of the Game", on and looking at the "polymporph" articles 1-4, here: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/arch/rg

For starters: Dragon keeps mental stats (Int, Wis, Cha). Dragon takes normal human physical stats (Str, Dex, Con become 10). Dragon loses natural armor. So if the DM is really generous and allows the class level addition, you may be looking at a Paladin level 1 with AC 10.

 

[Hypersmurf]

I have access to Draconomicon. The feat Dragon Cohort allows me to subtract 3 from the ECL of the dragon. Table 3-14 Dragon Cohorts (pg 139) has a Very Young Silver labeled as ECL 14. Subtracting 3 from 14, due to Dragon Cohort, gives it an ECL of 11 which is within my Leadership capabilities.

... but didn't we already determine that you're limited to a level 10 cohort, since you're only level 12?

-Hyp.