Dragon Disciple size increase

[Dingleberry]

Does the "enlargement" class feature a Dragon Disciple (T&B) gets at 5th level also gives the size increase effects shown in the MM (p. 12), or just the base claw/bite damage, -1 attack and -1 AC as noted in the class feature description? If there's anything official, please cite the source. If there's not, please state your reasoning.

Also, I know there have been threads on this in the past - feel free to post a link if you know where one is hiding.

Thanks.

 

[hammymchamham]

No, as the Sage has said so. And now I can't find it

 

[Oni]

This has been changed and ruled on so many times I'm not even sure what the current state of affairs is.

Personally I say give it to them, it jives better with the rest of the rules, and the Dragon Disciple isn't that good (in my opinion) to begin with.

 

[Crothian]

The Sage and rules people at Wizards now say no. The class is going to be revised for the new D&D revised coming out in July.

 

[Dingleberry]

I was leaning towards no, as the bonuses you get through the life of the class are already pretty solid (+8 Str, +2 Con, +2 Int, +2 Cha, +3 natural armor).

I do, however, think the "enlargement" should grant 10' reach.

 

[Pax]

Dingleberry, the benefits you get owudl be FINE, except for one thing:

The PrC bills itself for SORCERORS, yet if you take the Dragon Disciple for your sorceror ... you're screwing yourself. NO caster levels, NO appreciable increase in spells known or castable.

The PrC as presented is more suited to FIGHTERS than to sorcerors.

As for reach: that would depend on the character's size to begin with. You go up ONE size, not "to size large". And natural reach WOULD be dependant on your size/facing.

As it stands, the PrC is a gimme for Gnome Fighters, or similar ... and professional SUICIDE for Sorcerors, for whom it BILLS itself as being tailor-made.

In a word: FEH.

 

[Dingleberry]

Personally, I wouldn't characterize 7 bonus spells over 10 levels as "no appreciable increase", but that's a minor point.

I agree that it's a bad class if you want to continue study as a spellcaster, but that's because you're giving it up for an entirely different goal: embracing your draconic ancestry to eventually become a half-dragon. For that purpose, I think it's excellent.

 

[Crothian]

Personally, I wouldn't characterize 7 bonus spells over 10 levels as "no appreciable increase", but that's a minor point.

I agree that it's a bad class if you want to continue study as a spellcaster, but that's because you're giving it up for an entirely different goal: embracing your draconic ancestry to eventually become a half-dragon. For that purpose, I think it's excellent.

I agree, this class is for every sorcerer, it's for a certain sorcerer. That's the way prestige classes should be done.

 

[SpikeyFreak]

This has been changed and ruled on so many times I'm not even sure what the current state of affairs is.

Personally I say give it to them, it jives better with the rest of the rules, and the Dragon Disciple isn't that good (in my opinion) to begin with.

The rules in the MM are for creating larger monsters through monster advancement. They aren't rules for what happens when a creature's size increases.

A PrC giving a total of +16 to strength and +6 to con is way too powerful IMHO.

Besides, I imagine the class giving +8 to str and the MM avancement rules giving a +8 to str for going from medium to large is no coincedence.

--Weakling Spikey

 

[Oni]

The rules in the MM are for creating larger monsters through monster advancement. They aren't rules for what happens when a creature's size increases.

A PrC giving a total of +16 to strength and +6 to con is way too powerful IMHO.

Besides, I imagine the class giving +8 to str and the MM avancement rules giving a +8 to str for going from medium to large is no coincedence.

--Weakling Spikey

Yes the rules in the MM are for creating larger monsters through monster advancement, I never said otherwise. They however are the only rules that I know that deal with the effects of an actual change in size catagory. Being that I believe that sets a precedent, rather making additional contradictory rules.

As for whether it is too much or not, for 10 levels you ought to get some bang for the buck.

Lastly the +8 isn't a coincidence having to do with the size advancement, it's +8 because that is what the half-dragon template gives.