[Dragon Earth] Name a People

[mythusmage]

I'm getting work started on a campaign I'll be pushing here, at my blog, and on some mailing lists. Some of the history has been worked out, but I find myself with a problem. Namely, what to call the people who inhabit Scotland, Ireland, and Wales.

Background

In the 3rd century AD the Goths went off on a long migration. It's a long story, suffice it to say they wound up conquering and settling Wales, Scotland, and Ireland in that order. Over the centuries the Goths and the Celts have merged to become one people. But I can't think of what to call them. "Gothocelt" and "Gothicelt" just aint right.

BTW, the culture is mostly Celtic with a strong Gothic influence. For instance, Wothan is the evil twin to Lugh the Hand, and Arthur Pendragon is a Welsh war chief who led a long resistance to the Goth invasion before accepting Goth rule and eventually becoming a noted war chief among them as well. A Song of Woods and Fire is an epic cycle of the doomed struggle by Chuchulainn and his people against the conquest of the Ulster area by Duke (later King) Arthur and his people.

So if you can come up with a name for the combined Gothic/Celtic culture it would be most appreciated.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

If they merged as equals, then the name might reflect it, like Celths or Golts. Or they may have come up with a new name to reflect their dual heritage- Woad Goths?

However, if the Celts were conquered by the Goths, why would the conquerers call themselves anything but Goths?

Pseudo-legitimacy over the conquered? That might work- even when conquered, the Egyptians still called their rulers Egyptian, but they always modified this with a house name, like "Ptolemaic Pharaohs" referred to the Greeks who ruled over Egypt. What about Gallic Celts?

 

[mythusmage]

If they merged as equals, then the name might reflect it, like Celths or Golts. Or they may have come up with a new name to reflect their dual heritage- Woad Goths?

However, if the Celts were conquered by the Goths, why would the conquerers call themselves anything but Goths?

Pseudo-legitimacy over the conquered? That might work- even when conquered, the Egyptians still called their rulers Egyptian, but they always modified this with a house name, like "Ptolemaic Pharaohs" referred to the Greeks who ruled over Egypt. What about Gallic Celts?

At first, especially in Wales, it was conquerer and conquered, but as time went by more and more Celts joined in on the conquering (cf A Song of Woods and Fire), and there was a fair amount of interbreeding. Then too, the natives did outnumber the invaders by and large. In a sense, the Goths were assimilated by their subjects. And the Celts by the Goths. Things changed over the centuries.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Then I'd go with a fusion-type nomenclature.

Look, eventually, the lands in question became known as England, Great Briton, etc., after the Gaels, Angles, Saxons, Jutes, Normans and so forth passed through, right?

Call them "The Bretons" and have each township or clan identify themselves as either Goths or Celts, eg. Wolf Clan Celts, Black Bog Goths, Goths of Mandrake Hillock, etc. After all, the Romans allowed the people they assimilated to call themselves Roman citizens (if they behaved), and a citizen's rights were assured and equally enforced throughout the empire (of course, there WERE variances for wealth and so forth, but that is part of any society). These Bretons wouldn't care if you called yourself a Celt or a Goth, as long as you were a Breton first.

OK, so you don't like Breton because its somewhat anachronistic... What about some kind of corrupted Germanic name.

They like compound nouns...

Färberwaidslayers (Woad Slayers) becomes FarWay Slayers
Blaue Könige (Blue Kings) becomes Bla-kurn
Inselmänner (Island Men) becomes Inselmer
Seehorde (Sea Horde) could become Sayaard
Seeblätter (Sea Blades) becomes Saybloods
Seeäxte (Sea Axes) becomes Sayax

Play around on Babelfish and see what you come up with!

 

[mythusmage]

OK, so you don't like Breton because its somewhat anachronistic... What about some kind of corrupted Germanic name.

They like compound nouns...

Färberwaidslayers (Woad Slayers) becomes FarWay Slayers
Blaue Könige (Blue Kings) becomes Bla-kurn
Inselmänner (Island Men) becomes Inselmer
Seehorde (Sea Horde) could become Sayaard
Seeblätter (Sea Blades) becomes Saybloods
Seeäxte (Sea Axes) becomes Sayax

You've studied linguistic evolution!

In any case, Breton is inappropriate because Dragon Earth does have Bretons of its own.

Your suggested names do look good. What would be the early German for "Lords of the Wearers of Woad" be?

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Hmmmmm...

Lords der Träger des Färberwaids (Lords of the Wearers of Woad) could become Lords of the Farwaders (that's a LITTLE chewy...)

Über-lords der Färberwaid-Träger (Over-lords of the Woad Wearers) could become Uvaartrager

Seeblitz Goths (Sea Lightning Goths) becomes Saybloths
Seeräuber Goths (Sea Raider Goths) becomes Sayroybers
Färberwaid-Räuber (Woad Raiders) becomes Vaaroybers or Far-Robbers
Seeräuberkönige (Sea raider kings) becomes Sayrokonn

Nordgoth (Northern Goths) could be used almost unchanged.

 

[haakon1]

Britons. Which evolved from a tribal designation to a regional one, in real life. Celts plus Germans is who the British are in real life anyhow, with a slightly different tribe for the German side.

Note that Bretons and Britons are not the same thing. Bretons are a Celtic people from Brittany (now ruled by France, though things were not always so), and Britons are all the people of the island of Great Britain (both what the Romans called Brittania Minor -- England plus Wales -- and Brittania Major -- Scotland).

 

[mythusmage]

After all this discussion I've decided to name them Gelts.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Er...wouldn't do that- sounds too much like Gelfs from Disney's Dark Crystal.

Might get you some unintended laughter.

 

[Aaron L]

Naw, those were Gelflings.

Just never ever mention Geltlings.