Dragon Editorial: Fearless

[hong]

WotC should be so lucky.

YOU should be so lucky.

HAW HAW!

 

[Ipissimus]

Sadly, I can't say this is all players' faults either, as I've played with a couple of DMs that actually **encouraged** this game-dragging behavior.

-sighs- I know, it pains me.

 

[Wolfspider]

I don't mind cinematic play at all. In fact, my favorite game system, the Unisystem of Buffy and Angel and Army of Darkness , is quite cinematic and action packed and daring. I've already modified my v3.5 game with houserules to make it more cinematic (although I never thought that the system lacked that quality in the first place).

I am a bit mystified to hear about v3.5 games where players check every square for traps and treasure. That does sound dreadfully dull. But surely this is a play style issue and not a system one. I've never seen any of my players become SWAT scientists as described in this thread, and I certainly don't run games that way.

 

[hong]

-sighs- I know, it pains me.

Remember, it's not game-dragging, it's character-building.

 

[Wolfspider]

YOU should be so lucky.

HAW HAW!

Interestingly enough, yesterday I checked up on Diablo 2 after not having played the game in a few years. It's still alive, although certainly not as popular as WoW and others. But that game was hugely popular in its heyday, and I sure did enjoy the heck out of it.

Sigh. I miss my werebear druid and his bear companion smackin' some demons around the battlefield.

We were unstoppable.

*wipes a tear away*

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

"Take the Indiana Jones movies. That would be a in my eyes a very good inspiration for D&D. You have a smart hero who do not posses any superpowers yet still manages to be heroic by taking calculated risks when exploring dungeons or stopping BBEGs from aquiring artifacts."

Thing is though with Indiana Jones, if he rolled a one while running any of the dungeon gambit in Raiders he would be dead. In 4e, there is a better chance to survive a trap as well as more variety in getting passed them, that scene would be a amazing thing to recreate using a combination of chase-mechanics and the trap-combat system.

But Indiana Jones, in all the movies, never gets the equivalent of a rolled 1 that ends his life. Does this imply he is just "lucky", or that the (not actually existing, but let's pretend it does) rules contain enough wiggle room so that there is no single "1" that can lead to certain death?

The dangerous traps in Indiana Jones make us believe that they should be modelled as "save or die" traps in D&D, but the fact Indy never fails any of his saves and checks (and dying from it) could also indicate that they actually are not, and are better modelled by a different, more forgiving mechanic.

Off course, a movie character isn't really following any game rules, but if there were some, they would certainly be giving several options to avoid dying (at least if you're the hero, and we're not talking about some dark tragedy where everybody dies and never achieves his goals)

The question is what does the game aim to model, which story does it tell? Does it model situations in where you survive if you're lucky, and die if not? Or does it model situations in where you will probably survive, unless you make too many or too big errors?

4E leans to the latter. That's exactly what I want. But people that have grown up with (or in?) Tome of Horrors and the previous D&D editions might have different expectations (and prefer them, too.)

 

[Haffrung Helleyes]

I'll have to see the rules

It's hard to pass judgement on this one.

I would like for the game to be a little more cinematic, in that doing cool stuff is rewarded. But, I also want a game where the potential for PC death is everpresent.

I have always wanted 3E characters to have way more skill points, for example, because those skill points would enable PCs to be better at things like riding mine carts (what is the skill required for that, anyway?)

But I definitely don't want the game to dictate that the poison on the unfound trap on the treasure chest can't kill a PC.

So, we'll see.

Ken

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Interestingly enough, yesterday I checked up on Diablo 2 after not having played the game in a few years. It's still alive, although certainly not as popular as WoW and others. But that game was hugely popular in its heyday, and I sure did enjoy the heck out of it.

Sigh. I miss my werebear druid and his bear companion smackin' some demons around the battlefield.

We were unstoppable.

*wipes a tear away*

Diablo 2, Starcraft, World of Warcraft. Whatever Blizzard touches, it turns to gold.
They must be stopped!

...


Must they?

 

[Derren]

The articles headline might be about save or dies. But when you read the text you come to the conclusion that it is about "You can do what you want because it will never kill you".

Staying in a mine cart which drives towards a chasm is not taking risk, its pure desperation or when that don't apply (like in Chris post) pure stupidy. But in the 4E world of unreasonable action movie stunts this is not a risk at all. The characters can fly over the chasm with a untrained skill check.
There is a door in your way? Smash it without regard to the consequences as nothing the door can do will harm you. Why do we even need traps in the game when there is no risk in activating them?

Such a gameplay is suitable when you play characters wearing latex costumes with a big letter on their chest, but should not be the default playstyle in D&D.
And if you want to turn D&D into a superhero game don't be suprised that the people who want to play a (more or less) mediveal fantasy game leave.

 

[Jedi_Solo]

I don't want to play 'superheroes in chainmail'.

I do.

Well, to be perfectly fair I want to play 'Superheroes in Full Plate' but I think the idea is the same. That was what our last campaign (3e) turned into well before it ended at level 27 and my character had ditched all armor because his Dex was so high (he had Bracers of Armor... but still...)

I'm the member of our group that loves the social based sessions; I'm the one that loves the story aspect and really got into the political intrigue portion of our last campaign. But I'd rather be fighting a half-dozen badguys inside a tower and then learning the safest way out would be to scale down the outside while a dragon is blasting away than be a member of the group waiting for everyone 'to be sure' that the next five foot square of the hallway is safe.

Give me "Die Hard in Full Plate" over "CSI: Tomb of Horrors" anyday.