Dragon Editorial: Fearless
- Thread starter Shroomy
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Wolfspider
Explorer
I don't mind cinematic play at all. In fact, my favorite game system, the Unisystem of Buffy and Angel and Army of Darkness 
, is quite cinematic and action packed and daring. I've already modified my v3.5 game with houserules to make it more cinematic (although I never thought that the system lacked that quality in the first place).
I am a bit mystified to hear about v3.5 games where players check every square for traps and treasure. That does sound dreadfully dull. But surely this is a play style issue and not a system one. I've never seen any of my players become SWAT scientists as described in this thread, and I certainly don't run games that way.
, is quite cinematic and action packed and daring. I've already modified my v3.5 game with houserules to make it more cinematic (although I never thought that the system lacked that quality in the first place).I am a bit mystified to hear about v3.5 games where players check every square for traps and treasure. That does sound dreadfully dull. But surely this is a play style issue and not a system one. I've never seen any of my players become SWAT scientists as described in this thread, and I certainly don't run games that way.
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Wolfspider
Explorer
hong said:
Interestingly enough, yesterday I checked up on Diablo 2 after not having played the game in a few years. It's still alive, although certainly not as popular as WoW and others. But that game was hugely popular in its heyday, and I sure did enjoy the heck out of it.
Sigh. I miss my werebear druid and his bear companion smackin' some demons around the battlefield.
We were unstoppable.
*wipes a tear away*
Mustrum_Ridcully
Legend
But Indiana Jones, in all the movies, never gets the equivalent of a rolled 1 that ends his life. Does this imply he is just "lucky", or that the (not actually existing, but let's pretend it does) rules contain enough wiggle room so that there is no single "1" that can lead to certain death?Fallen Seraph said:
The dangerous traps in Indiana Jones make us believe that they should be modelled as "save or die" traps in D&D, but the fact Indy never fails any of his saves and checks (and dying from it) could also indicate that they actually are not, and are better modelled by a different, more forgiving mechanic.
Off course, a movie character isn't really following any game rules, but if there were some, they would certainly be giving several options to avoid dying (at least if you're the hero, and we're not talking about some dark tragedy where everybody dies and never achieves his goals)
The question is what does the game aim to model, which story does it tell? Does it model situations in where you survive if you're lucky, and die if not? Or does it model situations in where you will probably survive, unless you make too many or too big errors?
4E leans to the latter. That's exactly what I want. But people that have grown up with (or in?) Tome of Horrors and the previous D&D editions might have different expectations (and prefer them, too.)
Haffrung Helleyes
First Post
I'll have to see the rules
It's hard to pass judgement on this one.
I would like for the game to be a little more cinematic, in that doing cool stuff is rewarded. But, I also want a game where the potential for PC death is everpresent.
I have always wanted 3E characters to have way more skill points, for example, because those skill points would enable PCs to be better at things like riding mine carts (what is the skill required for that, anyway?)
But I definitely don't want the game to dictate that the poison on the unfound trap on the treasure chest can't kill a PC.
So, we'll see.
Ken
It's hard to pass judgement on this one.
I would like for the game to be a little more cinematic, in that doing cool stuff is rewarded. But, I also want a game where the potential for PC death is everpresent.
I have always wanted 3E characters to have way more skill points, for example, because those skill points would enable PCs to be better at things like riding mine carts (what is the skill required for that, anyway?)
But I definitely don't want the game to dictate that the poison on the unfound trap on the treasure chest can't kill a PC.
So, we'll see.
Ken
Mustrum_Ridcully
Legend
Diablo 2, Starcraft, World of Warcraft. Whatever Blizzard touches, it turns to gold.Wolfspider said:
They must be stopped!
...
Must they?
The articles headline might be about save or dies. But when you read the text you come to the conclusion that it is about "You can do what you want because it will never kill you".
Staying in a mine cart which drives towards a chasm is not taking risk, its pure desperation or when that don't apply (like in Chris post) pure stupidy. But in the 4E world of unreasonable action movie stunts this is not a risk at all. The characters can fly over the chasm with a untrained skill check.
There is a door in your way? Smash it without regard to the consequences as nothing the door can do will harm you. Why do we even need traps in the game when there is no risk in activating them?
Such a gameplay is suitable when you play characters wearing latex costumes with a big letter on their chest, but should not be the default playstyle in D&D.
And if you want to turn D&D into a superhero game don't be suprised that the people who want to play a (more or less) mediveal fantasy game leave.
Staying in a mine cart which drives towards a chasm is not taking risk, its pure desperation or when that don't apply (like in Chris post) pure stupidy. But in the 4E world of unreasonable action movie stunts this is not a risk at all. The characters can fly over the chasm with a untrained skill check.
There is a door in your way? Smash it without regard to the consequences as nothing the door can do will harm you. Why do we even need traps in the game when there is no risk in activating them?
Such a gameplay is suitable when you play characters wearing latex costumes with a big letter on their chest, but should not be the default playstyle in D&D.
And if you want to turn D&D into a superhero game don't be suprised that the people who want to play a (more or less) mediveal fantasy game leave.
Voss said:
I do.
Well, to be perfectly fair I want to play 'Superheroes in Full Plate' but I think the idea is the same. That was what our last campaign (3e) turned into well before it ended at level 27 and my character had ditched all armor because his Dex was so high (he had Bracers of Armor... but still...)
I'm the member of our group that loves the social based sessions; I'm the one that loves the story aspect and really got into the political intrigue portion of our last campaign. But I'd rather be fighting a half-dozen badguys inside a tower and then learning the safest way out would be to scale down the outside while a dragon is blasting away than be a member of the group waiting for everyone 'to be sure' that the next five foot square of the hallway is safe.
Give me "Die Hard in Full Plate" over "CSI: Tomb of Horrors" anyday.
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