[Dragon] Gladiators: We who are about to die...

[deleteme123456]

The Arena power feats make the half-elf's dilettante power even more appealing. Also, the savage armor would be really appealing if it was a cloth or leather armor; a squishy type wearing that and suddenly shoving everyone away to escape? Priceless.

Here's my rules question: the daily powers for the Net and Whip say target is grabbed/knocked prone/etc (save ends). Then it says "You can sustain this power as long as you are within 5 squares from the target."

What does sustaining a power do when it has a save ends effect? Does that mean that, as long as you sustain, the save doesn't matter?

There should probably be a clause "you can't sustain this effect once the target has saved against the effect." IIRC there was a Dark pact Warlock power that had something similar.

 

[Rechan]

There should probably be a clause "you can't sustain this effect once the target has saved against the effect." IIRC there was a Dark pact Warlock power that had something similar.

So what's teh point of sustaining?

 

[Cadfan]

So what's teh point of sustaining?

The way certain other powers work is, the power's effect ends at the end of your next turn. You can sustain the power to make it last for another round. But, the opponent gets a save, and if they succeed at the save, you aren't allowed to sustain the power any further.

 

[Milambus]

What does sustaining a power do when it has a save ends effect? Does that mean that, as long as you sustain, the save doesn't matter?

Both Sustain and Save Ends are ways to define durations in 4e. If a creature makes their save, the effect ends. If the caster fails to sustain an effect it at the end of their turn (starting the turn after its cast). Either of these can end the effect. If the target saves during their turn, then the effect has already ended before the caster's next turn, so they can not sustain it.

 

[Rechan]

The way certain other powers work is, the power's effect ends at the end of your next turn.

I've never seen a power with an ongoing save that 'ends at the end of your next turn'.

The 'sustain' seems to be a waste of text. There's no mention of action cost when you sustain. So all it ultimately says is 'if you move beyond 5 squares, the power ends'. Which would have been much easier to say than the sustaining business.

 

[Rechan]

If the caster fails to sustain an effect it at the end of their turn (starting the turn after its cast).

But there's no action cost to the sustaining effect.

Therefore, would it not be more efficient to say "The effect ends if you are beyond 5 squares of your target"?

 

[Rechan]

I also find many of the feats tedious for the same reason I found many of the PHB feats tedious.

They read like "If you score a critical hit while you have combat advantage against a bloodied enemy, that enemy takes -2 to x until the end of your turn."

The potential for the feat's use is so rare and situational, and the rarity of its occurrence isn't on par with the resulting effect, imo. I've yet to see any character score a critical hit in five sessions of play.

 

[Milambus]

I've never seen a power with an ongoing save that 'ends at the end of your next turn'.

The 'sustain' seems to be a waste of text. There's no mention of action cost when you sustain. So all it ultimately says is 'if you move beyond 5 squares, the power ends'. Which would have been much easier to say than the sustaining business.

There are many wizard powers that have both a Sustain line and Save Ends as their durations.

But there's no action cost to the sustaining effect.

Therefore, would it not be more efficient to say "The effect ends if you are beyond 5 squares of your target"?

I agree, that does seem odd. Hopefully, they will add Sustain lines to these powers before they final version is published at the end of the month.

Even if its "Sustain Free", the way the PHB defines Sustain effects seems to indicate that the line is required.

 

[Xris Robin]

The potential for the feat's use is so rare and situational, and the rarity of its occurrence isn't on par with the resulting effect, imo. I've yet to see any character score a critical hit in five sessions of play.

In my last session the DM critical hit me something like 5 times. At least once, he rolled a 20, and then rolled again to see what would happen. Another 20.

 

[James McMurray]

The potential for the feat's use is so rare and situational, and the rarity of its occurrence isn't on par with the resulting effect, imo. I've yet to see any character score a critical hit in five sessions of play.

Then you appear to be suffering from a statistical anomaly. Assuming twenty attack rolls per combat, you should have one natural twenty per combat. That's just an average, so of course won't hold true always, but I'd be interested to hear how many fights you've had in those sessions, how many attack rolls each one takes on average, and also whether anyone else in the group recalls scoring a crit.

We have three campaigns going off and on right now. Crits are fairly comon in them, on both sides of the screen. we've decided though that the higher your odds of critting, the less likely it is to happen. The paragon game's Dagger Master has critted perhaps 4 times less often than anyone else.

It appears to hold true in World of Darkness as well, which we played last week. People with dice pools of 10+ would miss or get 1 success, while my NPCs would get 4 out of a pool of 6. I'm sure that's observer bias, but it seems like the huge numbers of successes on a PC's part happened when the enemy only neded one point of damage to kill it. :O