Dragon Monk
- Thread starter Jdvn1
- Start date
Camarath
Pale Master Tarrasque
Here is the rule on combining attack with manufactured weapons (which includes unarmed strike since it follows the manufactured weapon rules) with attack with natural weapons.
From SRD Types, Subtypes, and Special Abilities
"Manufactured Weapons:......
Some creatures combine attacks with natural and manufactured weapons when they make a full attack. When they do so, the manufactured weapon attack is considered the primary attack unless the creature’s description indicates otherwise and any natural weapons the creature also uses are considered secondary natural attacks. These secondary attacks do not interfere with the primary attack as attacking with an off-hand weapon does, but they take the usual –5 penalty (or –2 with the Multiattack feat) for such attacks, even if the natural weapon used is normally the creature’s primary natural weapon."
Thus a Large Dragon with one Monk Level with a BAB of 18 could make 4 Unarmed Strikes (1d8+Str) of +18/+13/+8/+3, 1 Bite (2d6+1/2Str) at +13, 2 Claws (1d8+1/2Str) +13/+13, 2 Wings (1d6+1/2Str) +13/+13, and 1 Tail Slap (1d8+1/2Str) +13 as a Full Attack action. Basicly the Dragon can make all the attack it woul normally be intitled to as a normal character using Unarmed Strikes (or a Weapon if it used one) and can still attack with all of its natural weapon as secondary natural attacks (1/2 str bonus). It should be noted that you can not attack with a natural weapon if you are using to to wield a weapon (such as a claw attack and a sword wielded with that claw).
As to the question of if you can use Flurry of Blows and natural weapon attack in the same Full Attack action it depend on if you believe the "when using flurry of blows, a monk may attack only with unarmed strikes or with special monk weapons" limitation applies only attack gained from Flurry of Blows or all attack in the Full Attack action in which you used Flurry of Blows. This has been discussed extensively in other threads which I can link to if you wish.
Edit: Wow I should learn post faster that is alot of posts between when I started this post and when I finished it.
From SRD Types, Subtypes, and Special Abilities
"Manufactured Weapons:......
Some creatures combine attacks with natural and manufactured weapons when they make a full attack. When they do so, the manufactured weapon attack is considered the primary attack unless the creature’s description indicates otherwise and any natural weapons the creature also uses are considered secondary natural attacks. These secondary attacks do not interfere with the primary attack as attacking with an off-hand weapon does, but they take the usual –5 penalty (or –2 with the Multiattack feat) for such attacks, even if the natural weapon used is normally the creature’s primary natural weapon."
Thus a Large Dragon with one Monk Level with a BAB of 18 could make 4 Unarmed Strikes (1d8+Str) of +18/+13/+8/+3, 1 Bite (2d6+1/2Str) at +13, 2 Claws (1d8+1/2Str) +13/+13, 2 Wings (1d6+1/2Str) +13/+13, and 1 Tail Slap (1d8+1/2Str) +13 as a Full Attack action. Basicly the Dragon can make all the attack it woul normally be intitled to as a normal character using Unarmed Strikes (or a Weapon if it used one) and can still attack with all of its natural weapon as secondary natural attacks (1/2 str bonus). It should be noted that you can not attack with a natural weapon if you are using to to wield a weapon (such as a claw attack and a sword wielded with that claw).
As to the question of if you can use Flurry of Blows and natural weapon attack in the same Full Attack action it depend on if you believe the "when using flurry of blows, a monk may attack only with unarmed strikes or with special monk weapons" limitation applies only attack gained from Flurry of Blows or all attack in the Full Attack action in which you used Flurry of Blows. This has been discussed extensively in other threads which I can link to if you wish.
Edit: Wow I should learn post faster that is alot of posts between when I started this post and when I finished it.
Last edited:
Jdvn1
Hanging in there. Better than the alternative.
Not you you, the dragon.moritheil said:
To recap:moritheil said:
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If he makes his unarmed strikes with, say, his left forepaw, it would be consistent to rule that he cannot use that claw attack.
Why would you say it would be consistent to not let said dragon use his claw for his unarmed strike but not the natural attack?
I'm saying that an unarmed strike is one made without the benefit of the claw. Dragons striking with their claws are making natural attacks, not unarmed strikes.
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Sorry, I was using 'forepaw' and 'claw' interchangeably.
Why would it be consistent to let the dragon use his forepaw for his unarmed strike but on the natural attack? Presumably, he started the round being able to choose between using that paw for either an unarmed strike or a natural attack. Why can't it change midway?
moritheil
First Post
Jdvn1 said:Not you you, the dragon.
To recap:
_______________________________________________________________________
If he makes his unarmed strikes with, say, his left forepaw, it would be consistent to rule that he cannot use that claw attack.
Why would you say it would be consistent to not let said dragon use his claw for his unarmed strike but not the natural attack?
I'm saying that an unarmed strike is one made without the benefit of the claw. Dragons striking with their claws are making natural attacks, not unarmed strikes.
_______________________________________________________________________
Sorry, I was using 'forepaw' and 'claw' interchangeably.
Why would it be consistent to let the dragon use his forepaw for his unarmed strike but on the natural attack? Presumably, he started the round being able to choose between using that paw for either an unarmed strike or a natural attack. Why can't it change midway?
Er, that was said, but Hyp said that. I also don't understand it, as my reading of the SRD shows that you would not want to disallow a dragon from making one of his attacks later - since he could easily declare that he used his elbow to make the IUS.
moritheil
First Post
Camarath said:
If there is, I sure haven't seen it. I have only seen the SRD passage I quoted to show that one could use elbow strikes to make IUS. It would be very weird to say "depending on how you flavor text your strike, as with your elbow or with your paw, I'll decide whether or not to penalize you by taking away one attack."
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