D&D 4E Dragon Mountain (4e conversion - complete!)

[pemerton]

Interesting stuff, both of you - I hadn't realised the giant is a victim of draconic vengeance.

 

[Manbearcat]

Interesting stuff, both of you - I hadn't realised the giant is a victim of draconic vengeance.

Its actually quite a good "Pulp D&D Dragon's Lair meets Tucker's Kobolds" adventure. Like most things 2e, it was utterly incoherent. The first arc is a giant mess but if you utterly revise it and have it make sense, the whole of the campaign can be a lot of fun.

What Quickleaf has devised here will be a grand adventure, I have no doubt.

 

[Quickleaf]

Interesting stuff, both of you - I hadn't realised the giant is a victim of draconic vengeance.

Actually, according to the module the giant was polymorphed by a vindictive drow Mage who he insulted. The Mage planned to turn him back but was killed in a fire giant raid...or perhaps a kobold raid, the module is unclear. Anyhow, it all seemed pretty nonsensical to me, basically an excuse to include a tough SOB kobold. Or perhaps it's one of those subtle allusions to an older edition adventure, like something obscure from the G or D series...

Its actually quite a good "Pulp D&D Dragon's Lair meets Tucker's Kobolds" adventure. Like most things 2e, it was utterly incoherent. The first arc is a giant mess but if you utterly revise it and have it make sense, the whole of the campaign can be a lot of fun.

What Quickleaf has devised here will be a grand adventure, I have no doubt.

Thanks for the vote of confidence. It's great to get your feedback.

I've read a few blogs/posts about other DMs who thought about converting Dragon Mountain, and what a good fit it would be for 4e. A fellow DM on the WotC boards actually emailed me homemade maps of the mountain which were designed for an online game, Since Dragon Mountain fit perfectly with our new campaign, I decided to go gangbusters with it.

When I'm done, I think the PDF will be fairly self-contained so that a DM without a copy of the boxed set could run the adventure. It wouldn't be ideal, obviously, but everything you need will be there. Well, with two exceptions:

1) Non-kobold monsters are described in the Monster Vault.
2) I refer to traps detailed in Fourthcore's "Undermountain Mechanical Traps Reference Cards" which can be downloaded over here: http://slamdancr.com/wp/hardcore-essentials/

 

[Manbearcat]

@Quickleaf

Out of curiosity, did you run the original adventure in AD&D 2e?

 

[Quickleaf]

No, I never got the chance though I always wanted to. During my 2e days I was mainly running a story-driven Planescape game, so very little dungeon crawling. Maybe this is my way of making up for it?

 

[Manbearcat]

Could be Consider yourself lucky I think. Oh how I wish I had the 4e ruleset when I initially ran it.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

Funnily enough, I had done a tiny bit of work on an unprofessional conversion too. Nice to see someone not stop on it.

Maybe my problem was trying to convert book 1. I wrote up Lord Ovulous, Father Yokum, Arcana and Artur, plus several kobolds.

One design question I have is about the King of Kobolds encounter (in the original boxed set it's the Orange section of Level III). The original module had a kobold named Kargonoth who was actually a polymorphed fire giant, with the tough stats to match. This was one of the those "GOTCHA" moments that typifies old school dungeon design. Nothing wrong with it, but I'm not sure what to do with it.

Keep it? Adapt it? Change it into something else entirely?

Keep. Assign an Insight DC for PCs to realize that that character isn't actually a kobold (hard DC based on its level), as a trait. I'd make it a level 15 or so brute (since fire giants are level 15), but really use whatever level you want. It could even be elite. There could be lots of confusion if you give it a power like "Awesome Blow" that lets it push PCs a considerable distance... without magic.

 

[Quickleaf]

[MENTION=1165](Psi)SeveredHead[/MENTION] Sounds good to me.


I've got two dilemmas that I'm thinking about.

1.

The first dilemma is that one of my players is familiar with Tucker's kobolds and their typical strategies (arrow slits, murder holes, oil and fire, etc). In addition to those time-honored kobold traditions, what fresh new devious kobold strategies can I throw at the party which might surprise my old school player?

2.

The second is a skill challenge design dilemma. I have set up some of the exploration of Dragon Mountain as a skill challenge (page 5/6 of the PDF). Failures in this skill challenge have dire consequences determined by a d12 roll, ranging from having magic items stolen to the party getting split up. Right now I have it so that if a 12 is rolled, one of the PCs is abducted by kobolds, interrogated, stripped of their possessions, and sent to wander the mountain naked. Obviously, that could be a sticking point for some of players (and some of MY players in particular), because I'm not giving the player a chance to save him or herself and because no combat took place.

I want to be respectful of my players' versilimitude needs here, but I also am trying to capture the original spirit of Dragon Mountain which lists this exact abduction situation as one of the kobolds strategies. Thing is, in regular combat achieving a single PC abduction is almost impossible...

How would you resolve my dilemma?

 

[Manbearcat]

@Quickleaf

I'll address 1 later as I don't have much time. However, regarding 2:

If it were me, I wouldn't let the failed Skill Challenge result in an auto-abduction. People speak of Player Agency quite a bit. With that concern in mind, I think the route of auto-abduction might be a Bridge too Far for one or more of your players. However, there is a simple solution that creates more excitement/tension in the moment (as stakes actually play out in the game) and layers the anxiety/tension for the future as this same thing can happen again to others; Have the Skill Challenge result in the PCs getting split up and one particular PC gets ambushed by a nigh overwhelming force of Kobolds. You can either give them a fighting chance (but extremely difficult - I would take this route) or you can make it all but impossible to succeed. In the (nigh inevitable) event that the lost PC is defeated, the PC is not killed, but rather abducted and the situation plays itself out as you have indicated above (or perhaps in some other fashion...maybe a Skill Challenge parlay by the PC or something).

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

[MENTION=1165](Psi)SeveredHead[/MENTION] Sounds good to me.


I've got two dilemmas that I'm thinking about.

1.

The first dilemma is that one of my players is familiar with Tucker's kobolds and their typical strategies (arrow slits, murder holes, oil and fire, etc). In addition to those time-honored kobold traditions, what fresh new devious kobold strategies can I throw at the party which might surprise my old school player?

I think paragon level PCs would be fairly familiar with kobold tactics. In other words I don't see a problem there. Arrow slits are still devastating. (How much effort does it take to get through/around that wall?)

2.

The second is a skill challenge design dilemma. I have set up some of the exploration of Dragon Mountain as a skill challenge (page 5/6 of the PDF). Failures in this skill challenge have dire consequences determined by a d12 roll, ranging from having magic items stolen to the party getting split up. Right now I have it so that if a 12 is rolled, one of the PCs is abducted by kobolds, interrogated, stripped of their possessions, and sent to wander the mountain naked. Obviously, that could be a sticking point for some of players (and some of MY players in particular), because I'm not giving the player a chance to save him or herself and because no combat took place.

I want to be respectful of my players' versilimitude needs here, but I also am trying to capture the original spirit of Dragon Mountain which lists this exact abduction situation as one of the kobolds strategies. Thing is, in regular combat achieving a single PC abduction is almost impossible...

How would you resolve my dilemma?

You've spotted the obvious issue.

In Dark Sun, if you fail the "survive a day on Athas" skill challenge (yes, that's a skill challenge, and it gives you XP because you're not guaranteed to succeed) badly enough, you face spontaneous encounters of level +4.

If the PCs fail a skill challenge, they run into a kobold encounter set up to enable some of these actions.

If the theft encounter is triggered, they're dealing with skirmishers (possibly invisible due to items) that try to make Thievery checks and run away with items. This might be easier if some dragonshield-type kobolds distract the PCs. (This could be a "regular" encounter with some kobold minions who have Thievery trained who dart in, steal stuff, and dart out. If they have some sort of "Spring Attack" maneuver, they don't even need to stay in the hot spot for long! The thieves could belong to a different clan from the anchoring kobolds, as why would kobolds risk their lives just to let their friends steal stuff?)

The real cost is losing healing surges facing an unnecessary encounter (and possibly daily abilities, or not even getting a short rest when they wanted to) and since the PCs are sort of stuck in the mountain, that's really nasty...

For the kidnap encounter, I would recommend a level +4 (or more) encounter, where the kobolds try to use "nonlethal" controlling attacks. Lots of kobold sorcerers dishing out sleep-equivalent spells, etc. If the PCs fail, someone is likely to get kidnapped. And if the PCs succeed, they still lost resources.

I'd drop the splitting the party one. Paragon-level PCs could easily reunite using their own character resources, even if that means someone has to spend a few minutes preparing Sending. (Also, if only half the party gets into combat, half the party will probably be bored. Worse if you don't give XP to PCs who "skip" fights.)