Dragonlance Dragonlance "Reimagined".

[Hussar]

it was earlier in this thread I was told that it was collective punishment and the innocent are 'just collateral damage'

No, you added the "just" part.

And, again, what innocents? Remember, the people actually fully believed in the Kingpriest - the point where potentially their belief and faith was elevating the Kingpriest into godhood. That's not just a "we like this guy" kind of belief.

This whole discussion is nothing but a series of misrepresentations of the setting. NO the good gods did not send the Cataclysm, the entire pantheon, of which the good gods belong but do not control, did. NO the good gods did not sit back and do nothing while the Kingpriest rose. They stripped him and his followers of their spells, sent numerous portents and whatnot, which, as clerics, they really, REALLY should be able to understand. NO, it was not "just the Kingpriest" who was the problem.

On and on and on. Claim after unfounded claim with little or no support. When presented with actual textual evidence, it's entirely brushed off and ignored in favor of baseless opinions. It's so frustrating.

 

[Micah Sweet]

it was earlier in this thread I was told that it was collective punishment and the innocent are 'just collateral damage'

That is exactly right. It is representative of a pre-modern way of justice.

 

[Vaalingrade]

And, again, what innocents? Remember, the people actually fully believed in the Kingpriest - the point where potentially their belief and faith was elevating the Kingpriest into godhood. That's not just a "we like this guy" kind of belief.

The penalty for falling for* a con man or charismatic cult leader?

Death.

*Or living on the same continent as someone who did

 

[Fifth Element]

The problem i have with this is, to me it sounds like you're saying that anyone who isn't an activist is evil.

Sure, if you miss the tiny little detail that we're talking about literal gods here. If you ignore the actual context of the discussion, you will often reach an incorrect conclusion about what is being said.

 

[Fifth Element]

A known quantity of evil as opposed to giving Team Evil a blank check to intervene directly at a time of their choosing.

At which point you intervene to mitigate the evil that they try to do. A little genocide because maybe the evil gods might want to do something worse later (like two genocides?) and the good gods won't be able to stop them sounds like excuse-making to me.

 

[Fifth Element]

That is exactly right. It is representative of a pre-modern way of justice.

Yes, precisely. A type of justice that in no reasonable way can be called "good."

 

[Micah Sweet]

Sure, if you miss the tiny little detail that we're talking about literal gods here. If you ignore the actual context of the discussion, you will often reach an incorrect conclusion about what is being said.

I'm of the opinion that gods are beings who differ from mortal beings primarily in scale rather than kind.

 

[Fifth Element]

Huh. So, the gods actually DID directly intervene, removed spells from clerics, and did pretty much everything short of directly coming down to kill the Kingpriest personally, but, that's still apparently not enough. The only way, for some people, for the gods to not be evil is if they literally come down from the heavens and personally kill the Kingpriest.

"Not good" is NOT equivalent to "evil", so you're misrepresenting arguments here. Again.

And yes, clearly killing the Kingpriest would be a FAR lesser evil than blowing up a continent. So if those are actually your only two choices (and that's a big if), then one is preferable to the other, by miles and miles.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Yes, precisely. A type of justice that in no reasonable way can be called "good."

If you follow the pre-modern philosophy it represents, it absolutely can. By engaging in this kind of fantasy, you are tacitly accepting that point of view for the duration of your engagement. There is nothing wrong with this. People can enjoy a fantasy world where good means something different than the modern view.

 

[Haplo781]

"Not good" is NOT equivalent to "evil", so you're misrepresenting arguments here. Again.

And yes, clearly killing the Kingpriest would be a FAR lesser evil than blowing up a continent. So if those are actually your only two choices (and that's a big if), then one is preferable to the other, by miles and miles.

Because killing the leader of a movement always stops the movement