Dragons and Polymorph [BADD]

[Wolf72]

is there any feat or power that lets a dragon use some or part of its physical stats for a new from via polymorph?

I was thinking of something along the lines of [very rough draft]

improved changer
prereq: dragon, able to polymorph/shapechange either thru spell or spell-like ability
basic idea: When a dragon changes shape it usually gets the stats for an avg member of that species. A dragon in human shape would have 10 str, 10 dex, 10 con. With this feat the dragon can use 10+ 1/2 it's physical stats (if those stats are better than the new form's) or the new form's, which ever is better.

no use for dex (most dragons), con: not much difference since hp do not change, str: most noticeable difference,

I'd also like it to allow a portion (1/3? 1/2?) of the dragon's natural AC.

(i'd like to see a polymorphed dragon be kinda super-human)

other things I'd like to do:

armor of shapechange, this armor will stay with you in your new form, the actual armor bonus does not change no matter what size it becomes (always uses medium armor as a base). A suit of armor that changes shape (from humanoid to 4 legged creature or whatever) will appear as an appropriate type of armor (suit, barding, etc). +4 modifier? ... or does MotW have something like this already? ...

 

[skymage]

while i like the idea of retaining some of your own phisical stats when wild shaping polymorphing or shapechanging i don't think dragons are the ones that should get it. if anything it should be a general feat, wild feat, or have the prerequisites of the shapechanger type. so if you give it to dragons then anyone who can change shape should be able to take it as well. i understand if you want give it a high stat prereq. maybe con to show that the person can resist some of the change or a mental stat to show that they have greater control over the change.

there is an enhancement in MotW that allows an armors enhancement bonus to be retained. +2 plate with this enhancement will still provide a +2 armor bonus to the wearer even in the new form. the armor still melds into the body and you loss the base armor bonus but you still get the enhancement to armor from the magic. it adds +3 to the market price.

 

[Ravellion]

This is cool! I remember the Dragon from "Brothers in Arms" from Weis and Hickman... I think it is perfectly OK to make this a Dragon special feat. I don't see anything broken about it if you keep it fractured like that. (I'd go with half, for ease of use).

Me like.

Rav

 

[Wolf72]

ah ... maybe I should actually read my MotW now ... okay, hmm then I kinda still like the morphing armor idea ... so maybe go for broke and make it +5 mod? ... at most your armor will have +4 other mods (+1 ench for magic armor already). And if you're a flying creature you need to remember that you can only have light (or is it medium?) encumbrance and still fly.

and no capital letters needed SM, your sentences are easy to read and follow


... I am with Rav though, I like the Dragon only idea. still need to work on how much of a stat would transfer. Half it is, need to remember that for at least a few dragons this feat won't pay off until they're older (24+ str).

Natural AC? .5? or none?

 

[skymage]

i still don't see why dragons are the only ones that can use this feat. they aren't great shapechanges shapechangers are. i would think that if a dragon could use this feat anything that can change shape and has an above average stat should be able to use it too. after all polymorphing isn't somthing i picture dragons doing alot or at least not enough to become particularly good at it. maybe if i new your reasoning as to why dragons should be the only ones with this feat.

thier high stats should make them storng no matter what form.
they take they aren't the only creature with high stats.

they can polymorph.
they aren't shapechangers they are dragons and arn't the only ones with polymorph.

they are so old they should be able to learn a few tricks.
most shapechagers live just as long.

i can understand making it hard to meet the prerequisits but i don't see why dragons should be the only ones able to take this feat.

i can understand wanting this and wanting dragons to be able to use it but i don't see why dragons are the only ones able to use it

 

[Wolf72]

no wonder you don't understand us!!!! ... You're making sense!

well um ... okay ... right then ...

okay so, a feat then ... a metamagic/psionic feat ... prereq's are being able to shapeshift naturally or thru a spell ... and um ... a base fort of +5?

if it's gonna be available to everyone then it needs to be a reasonable feat too ...

I don't see many mages or druids taking this feat as the forms they poly into usually have better physical stats ...

what are your reccomendations?

 

[Happiest_Sadist]

What about the person who polymorphs into a form with low strength. They may get a strength higher than either their origional or the new form. Ex. A kobold with 6 strength, 18 dex, and 14 con polymorphs into himself. He gets strength 13, dex 19, con 17. Excessive, no? It is bad that it does not depend on the natural abilities of the form.

Anyway isn't the dragon already superhuman with his insane HP and BAB.

If not you may want to use this instead.

Draconic Shift
Requirement, caster must be a dragon or half dragon with the ability to polymorph.
Benifit: Whenever the dragon changes into a creature with less than 1/2 its HD, The Half dragon template (of the appropriate color) may be applied to this creature. At the caster's discretion, this template may not be physically apparent.

 

[Aaron2]

Draconic Shift
Requirement, caster must be a dragon or half dragon with the ability to polymorph.
Benifit: Whenever the dragon changes into a creature with less than 1/2 its HD, The Half dragon template (of the appropriate color) may be applied to this creature. At the caster's discretion, this template may not be physically apparent.

I'm not sure there needs to be a feat. Why can't a dragon polymorph into a half-dragon human already?


Aaron

 

[Wolf72]

I'm not sure there needs to be a feat. Why can't a dragon polymorph into a half-dragon human already?


Aaron

good point Aaron! ... a half dragon human gets at least +8 str ...

 

[skymage]

dragons can't polymorph into a half dragon for the same reason a human can't polymorph into a half dragon. all i have is the psionic handbook with me so i had to reference it for polymorph self and it says right in the description

you cannont change into a bigger or powerful version of a creature (or smaller weaker version), nor can you turn into a variant form of a creature. for example you can turn the subject into an ogre, but not a half-dragon ogre.

otherwise everyone always turn into a half dragon whatever dragon or not.

although the half dragon template might be a good base for the power of the feat.


Improved Shifting
prerequisits the ability to cast polymorph or similar magic, use wildshape, or have an ability that mimics polymorph base fort save 5+

when in another form that has str dex or con lower then your natural form you gain a morphing bonus equal to 1/2 the difference in stats round down.
special this feat never yeilds a penalty

example adult black dragon with stats of 23str 10dex 19con using improved shifting morphs into a human average stats of 10str 10dex 10con his stats would be 16str 10dex and 14con.

not quite the half dragon template but pretty close 2 less strength 2 more con and the older the dragon gets the large his bonus will be.
the feat is usable by anyone although the fort save can be raised if you want to keep it for dragons only.

this is how i would do it and i think i might ask my group to try it out (i'm playing a high dex shifter and get a feat next level).