Dragons Through the Editions: An Analysis

[Reynard]

If a dragon is too powerful for lower-level parties to deal with, then think of how long it'll have to be before the players of Dungeons & Dragons have to wait before they get to actually deal with a dragon. Some iconic monster! One that never appears...

I chose to use the most powerful dragons as an example, but of course there are smaller and younger versions than the Great Red Wyrms. Even a first level party has the capacity, given the right circumstances and the right dragon, to fight a dragon and win. Rather, the issue is that dragons topped out in 1E, and 2E seems to intend to extend their usefulness throughout the campaign, even into the higher levels.

 

[Reynard]

Dragons SHOULD be midlevel encounters. Higher levels should be reserved for daemons, liches, vampre lords, deities and the most epic of all opponents: Other Heroic Classed Adventuring PArties.

A statement of preference, no doubt. But the game isn't called Dungeons and Demons.

 

[ruleslawyer]

If a dragon is too powerful for lower-level parties to deal with, then think of how long it'll have to be before the players of Dungeons & Dragons have to wait before they get to actually deal with a dragon. Some iconic monster! One that can be used at all levels of play...

FIFY.

Low-level parties can fight wyrmlings or young dragons in any edition; the trick is to have a monster that can be used in various incarnations across all levels of play, and dragons weren't doing the trick at high levels in AD&D. The attempt to beef up dragons started with several articles in Dragon magazine (see the refigured damage for dragon attacks in #98, or the suggested boosts in #134), and was clearly a response to dragons becoming a speedbump in higher-level play.

 

[TerraDave]

I think underlying this is the fact that AD&D had material for high level charecters, but was really designed to play, or at least play well, till about "name" level (9-12).

Of course, people kept playing after that...and the game has been trying to get caught up ever since. One of the biggest promises of 4th ed is that it will finally "fix" high level play. Including dragons.

 

[Scribble]

Anyone else remember the rules for "subduing" a dragon?

I mean I guess they still sort of exist in 3e (you can do subdual damage and all) but in 1e it sorta seemed like it was more about calling the dragon out then doing non life threatening damage... Did that exist in 2e?

 

[S'mon]

Where dragons still have spellcasting but is much more balanced compared to melee attacks.

Isn't that what I said?

No, you said I should fix the 3e magic system so it didn't overpower dragons!

 

[Claudius Gaius]

2'nd edition pretty much eliminated "subduing" dragons.

I suspect that the basic assumptions differed: 1'st edition went with the heroic sagas: one mighty (name level) warrior, possibly with a few magical devices = one dragon. Second tried to compensate for the fact that everyone ran around in parties, making it too easy to handle dragons, so it changed to one party = one dragon. Third edition upped them again, to make dragons more of a "boss-encounter", but tried to keep them available as lower-level opponents via fairly common encounters with young ones (why, since the lower age categories don't last very long, the world wasn't overrun with dragons if they were producing young that fast wasn't really explained).

 

[Aeric]

Anyone else remember the rules for "subduing" a dragon?

I mean I guess they still sort of exist in 3e (you can do subdual damage and all) but in 1e it sorta seemed like it was more about calling the dragon out then doing non life threatening damage... Did that exist in 2e?

I always loved the idea of marching into a dragon's lair, spanking it so soundly that it says "uncle," and then parading it into town to sell into slavery. I remember reading in one of my old 1E manuals (the DMG or maybe the MM) that "every large town has a market for buying dragons." How crazy is that?

 

[Aaron2]

In BECMI/RC D&D

The huge red dragon has 20 HD, an AC of -5, 3 attacks doing 1d12+2/1d12+2/4d8+8, firey breath that does the dragon's current hit points in damage, and the possibility (50%) of being able to use magic spells as a 10th level mu (approx). It has no special resistance to magic (but saves as a 36th level fighter) and can be hit by normal weapons.

 

[Evilhalfling]

I created a cr 21 Brass dragon for the battle of all alignments in a sub-forum here.
it is a 17th level sorcerer, in the fights that the dragon has had (vs other cr 19-21) monsters.
Its stengths have been - physical buff spells, the ability to cast Heal, and meta breath spells (which may infact be broken.)
Greater Stuning Breath (7th lvl) = insignifigant fire damage + dc 34 sv or stunned several rounds, no SR
Enervating Breath (8th level) which is energy drain with a dc 34 save.

ignoring the breath spells it actually fights more like a cleric.
Buff and Pound.

I could live with less magic from elder dragons, but since I normally play to only about 12th level the dragons suck as sorcerers, only casting a few buff spells: shield, mage armor and resist energy are typical.
The one game that went longer had only white dragons in the end-game. They were servants or slaves of the BBEGs. The youger dragons with strange personalities were part of a big battle with frost giants, and more fun then the final confrontation with mom,
even though she had been tormenting them for several encounters, it was her riders that got the credit.