Dragons

So hes stupid enough to find himself in an environment not of his choosing?

Nope, there is merely a level of possibility with intellect. For instance he does not have convient processing plants to build the high tech material necessary for major projects.

He has not the time to do the research to close up the missing layers of knowledge, he can make darn good guesses though.

His int bonus on skills is quite useless without some certain feats....


In effect, he is born into a world that is in itself limited, in knowledge, resources, etc... All the intelligence in the world is no good if you don't have the knowlege to back it up, and he can only get 4 ranks of any skill....

I disagree.

That is interesting, I don't consider intellect body control. That is why it does not add to dodge. So despite the fact that he knows exactly where how, and what that sword will do to him, he can't move out of the way.

Further, giving him such special abilities is outside of the standard D&D system, sure you can invent them, but THOSE would be what determine the CR not the ability score.

So with an intelligence of 1 million he couldn't work that out?

Nope, he doesn't know exacly how everyone else is breathing, because he cannot observe them. Remember 'wisdom' is the observation score.

Thats like being able to blow up the death star without having to make the approach or trench run.

It is perfectly possible to bluff this guy. His sense motive is only +4. Boom a 10th level rogue tricks him into thinking he is friendly (BLUFF), knife in the back.

His intelligence does not apply to people, heck he may walk in broad daylight without protection all the time. He isn't afterall WISE.

If you amputate the realistic effects of his intellect then you are simply not doing the character justice.

The realistic effects are even more limited basically as intelligence is described he would:

Remember everything
Learn any skill instantly
Reason perfectly.

Unfortunately, his reasoning would be just as flawed without the appropriate knowledge, sure if presented the knowledge he would immediatly understand it and all its implications, possibly those he hasn't even seen yet.


He has no better common sense, intuition, or perception than the common man.
 

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Hi Xylix! :)

Xylix said:
Nope, there is merely a level of possibility with intellect. For instance he does not have convient processing plants to build the high tech material necessary for major projects.

I am sure he will find the most expedient means necessary.

Xylix said:
He has not the time to do the research to close up the missing layers of knowledge, he can make darn good guesses though.

So hes been living in a vacuum until the PCs arrive ~ what is this 'doesn't have the time' nonsense?

There has to be some repercussions when introducing NPCs (whether monstrous or otherwise) especially one of this magnitude.

Xylix said:
His int bonus on skills is quite useless without some certain feats....

Not all though.

Looking at the epic rules with Alchemy (as a cross-class skill) alone he could create a potion dealing 25,000 d6; or even 1000 d6 over a vast area.

Xylix said:
In effect, he is born into a world that is in itself limited, in knowledge, resources, etc...

Its only as limited as the DM makes it.

Xylix said:
All the intelligence in the world is no good if you don't have the knowlege to back it up, and he can only get 4 ranks of any skill....

yeah that measly +499,995 bonus is useless! :D

Xylix said:
That is interesting, I don't consider intellect body control. That is why it does not add to dodge. So despite the fact that he knows exactly where how, and what that sword will do to him, he can't move out of the way.

Further, giving him such special abilities is outside of the standard D&D system, sure you can invent them, but THOSE would be what determine the CR not the ability score.

The fact that even the Epic Level Handbook at best caters for skills up to 150 tells us that to accurately portray such a character we would have to invent new abilities and items ~ because he certainly would!

Xylix said:
Nope, he doesn't know exacly how everyone else is breathing, because he cannot observe them. Remember 'wisdom' is the observation score.

I think our problem is that both of us have little conception of what one million intelligence actually entails.

If we were to use strength instead...that character could lift 1x10(power of 62)lbs OR 3x10(power of 36)Planet Earths meaning he could carry around a galaxy sized black hole and it would only class as Light Load. :D

Our NPC is of that intellectual magnitude! :eek:

Xylix said:
It is perfectly possible to bluff this guy. His sense motive is only +4. Boom a 10th level rogue tricks him into thinking he is friendly (BLUFF), knife in the back.

His intelligence does not apply to people, heck he may walk in broad daylight without protection all the time. He isn't afterall WISE.

The realistic effects are even more limited basically as intelligence is described he would:

Remember everything
Learn any skill instantly
Reason perfectly.

Unfortunately, his reasoning would be just as flawed without the appropriate knowledge, sure if presented the knowledge he would immediatly understand it and all its implications, possibly those he hasn't even seen yet.

He has no better common sense, intuition, or perception than the common man.

What you seem to be doing is assigning 1 million intelligence one round and have the PCs attack him the next round. Obviously his Intelligence is going to have repurcussions as hes growing up.

If you place a Tyrannosaurus Rex in a city it has repurcussions. Likewise if you create a character with 1 million Intelligence it will have repurcussions on the environment/society
 

Upper_Krust said:

I define it as character level + 0.5 for every 5 points of ability scores above 10.

eg. a 9th-level character with Str 15 and Con 15 is CR (+1) 10.

If you want a more detailed (and pedantic) analysis:

1. Total all ability scores.
2. Reduce by 60.
3. Divide by 10 to get the CR increase.

I have to agree with Xylix here for the most part. You should not increase the CR just because a player maybe rolled better or whatever. There is a range of scores for ALL characters, no matter the race. Ability scores are ALREADY factored in with race and level/HD, so no need to count it twice.

You're making changes that over-complicate the whole system. The supposed "flaws" are so small and practically non-existent that accounting for them is a waste of time and quite silly. The flaws aren't worth the work. You're making a mountain out of a molehill!
 

Hi Anubis mate! :)

Anubis said:
I have to agree with Xylix here for the most part. You should not increase the CR just because a player maybe rolled better or whatever.

A character that rolled three or four 15+ ability scores is more powerful than one that didn't.

Obviously ability scores have some effect.

Anubis said:
There is a range of scores for ALL characters, no matter the race. Ability scores are ALREADY factored in with race and level/HD, so no need to count it twice.

Obviously they are factored into race.

But they are not factored into level. Two characters of the same level can have widely variable CRs.

Anubis said:
You're making changes that over-complicate the whole system.

I don't see ability scores drammatically changing very often so its not like you have to determine it every minute!

Anubis said:
The supposed "flaws" are so small and practically non-existent that accounting for them is a waste of time and quite silly.

The difference between 1 CR is negligable...yet people still keep track of them. I don't see this as any different.

Anubis said:
The flaws aren't worth the work. You're making a mountain out of a molehill!

Its easy to give in and say it doesn't matter but you have to draw the line somewhere.

If ignored the molehill that is ability scores eventually becomes a mountainous CR gulf.
 


UK, Intelligence is the ability to learn, not the sum of all your knowledge. I don't care if the score is 100, 1000000, or 1000000000000000000000000000000000, if NO ONE knows how to make a tactical nuke, neither will the character, because no one is there to teach him OR teach him what's needed for him to figure it out himself! (You would have to go Physics-Steam Power-Chemistry-Scientific Theory-Nuclear Physics-Fission AT LEAST, which no matter how "fast" he learns, the span of one life will not take him there.)

You are obviously out of touch with how intelligence works. There were PLENTY of geniuses over the last 2000 years, and it took their COMBINED efforts over CENTURIES to come up with modern technology. People haven't gotten smarter over the years, either. If anything, people today are lots dumber than people of 500 years ago!

As such, he won't be making robots in Greyhawk no matter what ability score he is. Deities could do it, but a normal character could not.
 



Hi Anubis mate! :)

Anubis said:
UK, Intelligence is the ability to learn, not the sum of all your knowledge. I don't care if the score is 100, 1000000, or 1000000000000000000000000000000000, if NO ONE knows how to make a tactical nuke, neither will the character, because no one is there to teach him OR teach him what's needed for him to figure it out himself!

To you the score is just an arbitrary sum but I already showed the simply amazing potential when we apply such a score to strength.

Anubis said:
(You would have to go Physics-Steam Power-Chemistry-Scientific Theory-Nuclear Physics-Fission AT LEAST, which no matter how "fast" he learns, the span of one life will not take him there.)

You would imagine he learns almost instantaneously!?

Anubis said:
You are obviously out of touch with how intelligence works. There were PLENTY of geniuses over the last 2000 years, and it took their COMBINED efforts over CENTURIES to come up with modern technology. People haven't gotten smarter over the years, either. If anything, people today are lots dumber than people of 500 years ago!

...must...resist... :P

Anubis said:
As such, he won't be making robots in Greyhawk no matter what ability score he is. Deities could do it, but a normal character could not.

I think everyone is having difficulty comprehending just how far beyond even the intelligence of the gods we are speaking of here! (including me)
 


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