[Dread] Jenga beat up my dice! My results from the indie horror RPG.

[Hypersmurf]

Gameplay podcasts? Really? Where?

You should've paid more attention to the market indicators.

-Hyp.

 

[John Crichton]

Or, as happened in DG!'s first session at GenCon, where Rel approached the tower, tested a few blocks, hemmed and hawwed and stared death in the face... and then looked Liz in the eye, reached out, and shoved the tower over

-Hyp.

Both daredevils met that fate.

 

[Plane Sailing]

In this case, the player didn't actually refuse to pull ever. But he did do whatever he could to avoid getting into a situation where he would be forced to pull, and if he were offered a pull, he'd generally decline if he thought he could get away with it.

He wasn't out to deliberately ruin everyone's fun; I think he was quite literally afraid of the tower. And it's the wrong way to approach the game. He didn't ruin the game (I don't think one player in an otherwise great group could ruin a game with Piratecat at the helm)... but he did, I think, make it less than it could have been.

-Hyp.

My first game of Dread was brilliant, but my second game wasn't and it was accidentally my fault

It is possible to accidentally end up creating (through the questionnaire) a character who has good reasons to end up not taking pulls, and that is what I ended up with. The end result was that by 'playing in character' I ended up avoiding doing things which would probably have been more fun for me (and everyone else).

Certainly if I play Dread again I'll make an effort to include elements of the character that are likely to support a certain amount of reckless or heroic behaviour. Certainly a character who tends to be proactive rather than reactive.

I mention this experience to indicate that it is possible for someone who isn't a particularly bad role-player to accidentally paint themselves into a corner a bit.

Cheers

 

[Hypersmurf]

It is possible to accidentally end up creating (through the questionnaire) a character who has good reasons to end up not taking pulls...

Hmm.

For the most part, though, the tower is a mechanic for the player.

A reckless and heroic character could be played perfectly in character by a tentative player who declines to make pulls. The reckless and heroic character leaps to wrest the rifle from the maniac's hands; the tentative player elects not to pull from the tower; the reckless and heroic character gets shot in the leg for his trouble.

Similarly, a cautious and reserved character can still yield plenty of opportunities to make pulls. The confident player will accept those pulls; the tentative player might not; the difference between the two is a cautious and reserved character who is either successful or dead, and a cautious and reserved character who fails at what he cautiously attempts.

My experience with three Dread GMs, all of whom did a great job in my opinion, is that the GM can find reasons for any player to be offered a pull, whether the character is brash or quiet. Whether or not to accept that pull is up to the player, not the character.

In some ways, it's similar to the decision whether or not to spend an action point in d20. Whether it's the fighter swan-diving from the back of a griffon to attack the titan with his greataxe (attack roll), or the rogue cowering behind a tree and praying the titan doesn't notice him (stealth check), it's up to the player to decide whether or not to spend the action point that may mean the difference between success or failure. In Dread, the GM would say to both players "Make a pull to see if the action succeeds". If the fighter's player elects not to pull, his axe does not bite home. If the rogue's player elects not to pull, the titan sees him hiding.

The nature of the characters does not dictate whether or not those pulls are offered, nor whether or not the player accepts them.

The way you answer the questions may dictate how you approach the adventure, but it shouldn't prevent you from getting to pull from the tower on a regular basis, if the GM is on the ball.

-Hyp.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Interestingly, in my first Dread game, my character spent the entire endgame cowering under a table clutching a shotgun, while several of the other PCs were off confronting the BBEG. It seemed the obvious response for that PC, especially once he started having the WWI trench flashbacks. The only thing I got to shoot was barsoomcore's character. ("Do you want to pull to avoid that?" "No, I'm cool - being hit with a shotgun sounds about right.")

We didn't actually triumph over the BBEG... until the epilogue, when it was discovered that a throwaway line in a player's questionnaire thwarted its dreams of immortality permanently. That was a moment of beauty.

But despite 'in character' keeping me away from some of the key scenes, I had a fantastic time in that game. (There were several barsoomcore moments that were simply poetry.)

In my second game, the character(s) I played was not particularly heroic or reckless or dashing. But I got to make plenty of pulls (several opposed by myself, as it happens), and shoved the tower down in the endgame. So heroic and reckless isn't a requirement to have a lot of tower-time.

-Hyp.

 

[Thornir Alekeg]

Just as an aside, it is certainly possible to simulate the jenga tower using dice. Not perfectly, mind you, but you get the same end result: early rolls are easy, later rolls are harder.

Start a dread counter at 1. People roll d% when they'd take a pull. Whenever someone makes a roll, increment the dread counter by 1. If someone rolls equal or under the dread counter, they just toppled the tower and it resets at 1.

First off, the randomness versus some skill level I think can take people out of the game more. When you roll a random number on dice that gets you killed, people are more likely to shrug it off as "bad luck." When you make that pull that tumbles the tower, people are more likely to think about what they did wrong.

Also, an increase of 1% for each roll doesn't have the impact on other players the way a nasty pull can. If you really were interested rolling dice, I would suggest that the % increase is variable; increment the dread counter by the number on the players "ones" die (e.g. if the player roll 24, the % goes up by four. If they roll 30, it goes up by 10).

 

[WizarDru]

First off, the randomness versus some skill level I think can take people out of the game more. When you roll a random number on dice that gets you killed, people are more likely to shrug it off as "bad luck." When you make that pull that tumbles the tower, people are more likely to think about what they did wrong.

Also, an increase of 1% for each roll doesn't have the impact on other players the way a nasty pull can. If you really were interested rolling dice, I would suggest that the % increase is variable; increment the dread counter by the number on the players "ones" die (e.g. if the player roll 24, the % goes up by four. If they roll 30, it goes up by 10).

I also don't see dice being able to represent the mechanic of the Tower as combative. Players may be actively fighting each other, and you can't make a nasty pull to sabotage other players with the dice. Nor can you 'take one for the team' with the same effect as Rel did, described above.

And as Hyp also mentions, a large part of Dread's appeal is the tension the tower presents to the players. The tower itself is an influence on the game in the way that a simple mathematical dice equation could never be.

I'm running my first Dread game this weekend and I'll post my results afterwards. Rodrigo Istandilr inspired the adventure I'll be using when he mentioned the real-life incident that inspired him. I'm taking it in a different direction (in part as a tribute to one of the people who'll be playing), though.

 

[Seonaid]

I really suggest that, for the doubters, you play in a game by a GM who's run Dread before (if possible). At the VERY least, watch an entire game (and try to snag a couple of character questionnaires to read beforehand). If at that point you decide it's not for you, fine. But as others have said, it's very different reading about it compared to experiencing it. I found myself getting caught up in games I was merely watching at conventions.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I find this pretty interesting, and I'd really like to try a test session. Though I am not sure I am qualified as a DM or as a player for that game, nor am I certain about my gaming group.

And interesting how a different resolution system can make you think about what they add to the game - I started thinking I might feel a little dirty inside that the "thrill" or tension in Dread comes from pulling the Jenga tower, and basically feels like short-cutting the "story tension". But then - all the tension in D&D also comes largely from the dice, and the real thing is that it is a mix of story and resolution that really creates the effect - if you didn't need to pull or roll a dice for an important dramatic decision, you wouldn't feel the tension...

 

[Janx]

This thread has piqued my interest in Dread. I've downloaded all the free stuff, and plan to try it out.

I'd like to get a copy of the full game, but I see PDF version still isn't available. I have a friend who lives by The Source in Mpls. so I may have him try to find a copy.

I have some thoughts on some other folks' concerns about this game.

The game mechanic definitely has an eventual failure wired into it. The tower WILL collapse at some point, killing somebody (unless the game is short). A non-fatal reset mechanic might reduce the feel of lethality (perhaps some action consisting of several pulls to reset the tower).

The game is very numberless/statless. One way to adapt it to an existing RPG, might be to consider that higher skill ranks require fewer pulls to succeed at a task. Let's say skills run 1-3, invert that number (subtract from 4) and make players do that many pulls to perform a task. In D20, subtract the skill from the DC and divide by some arbitraty value (to make it a reasonable number of pulls). Thus, DC15, with 8 ranks gets you a 7, divide by 5, gets you 1.something, making it 2 pulls. Something simple like that, and you just translated D20 skill mechanics. Perhaps reset the tower after each encounter (or only after beating big bad bosses).

I saw one complaint that the game favored those with skill at the Jenga. I say pish-posh, all games favor someone with real world skill. A tactical genius will do better in a D&D fight than a nincompoop, both with same stats, and same dice rolls fated to them. A socially adept player will be more persuausive than a rude jerk. D&D can't counter for real world skills, it can only offer unskilled a chance at the table.

One point that James Ernest of Cheap-ass games made, was that he liked making games that were random, but if you applied some skill, you get would a slight advantage over those who didn't. The trick was to make it so it wasn't an overwhelming advantage.

Another complaint was that the jenga mechanic broke the verisimilitude of RPGs. As if reaching for dice, looking up stats is any less jarring. Short of using real weapons and monsters, any game-based resolution system is going to interrupt the story. The trick of good game design is to make it brief, and make it low impact. Jenga induces tension, which is good for horror. Poker cards feels old west, which is good for western rpgs.

Overall, the game looks great, and I can't wait to try it out on my group.