Droid characters starting XP/Stats

[Jefe Bergenstein]

I'm preparing to run my first Edge of the Empire game, and one of the players was interested in playing a droid, but felt they were a little underpar mechanically speaking (no pun intended), given their starting stats of straight 1's and not enough starting exp to really compensate.

Perhaps when Edge premiered they had a niche as a specialist, but it seems the more races published, the more this erodes. Obviously if you want to play a DROID, droids are the best. But if you just want to play a smart guy, it's really hard to ignore something like the drall with its 4 Intellect and overall better stats. Similarly we're seeing more and more races with a pair of 3's in stats. Overall, this seems stronger from a rules perspective than an extra starting rank in your 7/8th skill pick.

Would it unbalance things to give droids at least a 2 in a stat of their choice? Anyone else tinker (heh) with giving droids a boost?

Before anyone gets all huffy and trots out the "roleplay, not roll play" chestnut, this is just about mechanics. People can have run RP'ing a character of any species, I don't see why someone should pay a premium to do it as a droid.

 

[Chimpy]

Droids get more points in skills to start off with compared to other species, and also get more career skills, so ranking up skills over time is easier and cheaper for them. So it kind of averages out.

In addition, another benefit of a droid is that they are hugely customisable at the outset. You could have characteristics of 4, 3, 2, 1, 1, 1 for example - not many other species could do that. Droids work really well when highly specialised.

Bear in mind that over time, the XP gained from adventuring dwarfs the character creation allocation, so in the long run it's not so big a deal.

 

[aramis erak]

Add to that that droids can add built-in equipment later on, especially armor... and in edge, with some obligation added... up to 15 that 175 can be 190...

Att 5=140p=50+40+30+20
Att 4=90p = 40+30+20
Att 3=50p = 30+20
Att 2=20p

190p: 5,3,1,1,1,1
190p: 4,2,2,2,2,2
190p: 4,3,3,1,1,1
190p: 3,3,3,2,2,1
180p: 5,2,2,1,1,1
180p: 4,3,2,2,1,1
180p: 3,3,2,2,2,2
170p: 4,2,2,2,2,1
170p: 3,3,3,2,1,1
160p: 5,2,1,1,1,1
160p: 4,3,2,1,1,1
160p: 3,3,2,2,2,1

Compare to a human's 110 with base 2's and ob-raised max of 125
Att 5=120p=50+40+30
Att 4=70p = 40+30
Att 3=30p = 30
Att 2=0p

120p: 5,2,2,2,2,2
120p: 3,3,3,3,2,2
100p: 4,3,2,2,2,2
_90p: 3,3,3,2,2,2
_70p: 4,2,2,2,2,2

Or a non-human schedule A.. {} indicates started 3, () indicates started at 1
Att 5=120p {90p} (140p)
Att 4=70p {40p} (90p)
Att 3=30p {0p} (40p)
Att 2=0p {—} (10p)

120 5,{3},2,2,2,(1)
120 {5},2,2,2,2,(2)
120 {4},4,2,2,2,(2)
110 {4},4,2,2,2,(1)
110 {3},3,3,3,2,(2)
100 {4},3,3,2,2,(1)
_90 {5},2,2,2,2,(1)
_90 {4},4,2,2,2,(1)
_90 {3},3,3,3,2,(1)
0: {3},2,2,2,2,(1)

And Schedule B
120p: {5},{3},3,2,(1),(1)
120p: {4},{4},2,2,(2),(2)
110p: {5},{3},2,2,(2),(1)
110p: {4},{3},3,2,(2),(2)
100p: {3},{3},3,3,(3),(1)
100p: {4},{4},2,2,(2),(1)
100p: {3},{3},3,3,(2),(2)
_90p: {5},{3},2,2,(1),(1)
_90p: {4},{3},3,2,(2),(1)
__0p: {3},{3},2,2,(1),(1)

 

[Jhaelen]

After reading the FFG rulebooks, I had the same feeling. So, I decided to make a post in FFG's forums: Why would anyone ever play a droid?. It definitely lead to some interesting discussion.

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

Droids get more points in skills to start off with compared to other species, and also get more career skills, so ranking up skills over time is easier and cheaper for them. So it kind of averages out.

In addition, another benefit of a droid is that they are hugely customisable at the outset. You could have characteristics of 4, 3, 2, 1, 1, 1 for example - not many other species could do that. Droids work really well when highly specialised.

Bear in mind that over time, the XP gained from adventuring dwarfs the character creation allocation, so in the long run it's not so big a deal.

Stats are a big deal though. They are the hardest things to upgrade, and if you have multiple core concept skills in the same stat, you're certainly better off raising them at creation, since it gives you extra dice to everything. Given the starting skill limit of 2, there's next to no reason not to dump nearly all your points into stats.

That smart 4/3/2/1/1/1 droid has 15 exp left. A drall with 4/3/2/2/1/1 has 60 *and* an extra starting 2. As more races with different stat combinations are released, the customization advantage of droids wanes even further. So right now, if you want to play a smart droid, you're shooting yourself in the foot. We're seeing more races with a 3 in 2 stats (Toydarian, Weequay, Hutts, Chadra Fan, Selonian, Nemoidains plus whatever is in the F&D books) which the droid needs to spend 100 exp just to match.

A droid basically gets 3 extra 1st ranks of skills they potentially already passed over, so essentially its just 15 exp. I'm wondering if it would balance to instead let them get 3 extra ranks of skills, raising to 3 at creation similar to how corelians can raise piloting to 3.

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

After reading the FFG rulebooks, I had the same feeling. So, I decided to make a post in FFG's forums: Why would anyone ever play a droid?. It definitely lead to some interesting discussion.

Yeah, I saw the thread. Basically it seems droids are somewhat inferior, with the usual "RP not roll play" battle cry. Clearly, if you want to play a droid, droid is your only option. If you are ambivalent on species, and just want to play a face, pilot, or whatever, you are going to be mechanically weaker if you select droid, moreso if another 4 stat race is released. The GM might spotlight balance that by catering the campaign or focusing on the intangible aspects, but those are more nebulous.

 

[aramis erak]

Stats are a big deal though. They are the hardest things to upgrade, and if you have multiple core concept skills in the same stat, you're certainly better off raising them at creation, since it gives you extra dice to everything. Given the starting skill limit of 2, there's next to no reason not to dump nearly all your points into stats.

That smart 4/3/2/1/1/1 droid has 15 exp left. A drall with 4/3/2/2/1/1 has 60 *and* an extra starting 2. As more races with different stat combinations are released, the customization advantage of droids wanes even further. So right now, if you want to play a smart droid, you're shooting yourself in the foot. We're seeing more races with a 3 in 2 stats (Toydarian, Weequay, Hutts, Chadra Fan, Selonian, Nemoidains plus whatever is in the F&D books) which the droid needs to spend 100 exp just to match.

A droid basically gets 3 extra 1st ranks of skills they potentially already passed over, so essentially its just 15 exp. I'm wondering if it would balance to instead let them get 3 extra ranks of skills, raising to 3 at creation similar to how corelians can raise piloting to 3.

With the right choices, that's actually 2 extra second rank skills and a 1st rank for the third. Making it worth an extra 25 instead of extra 15... So, 30-40 points left vs 60, and immune to food and air (also worth 10), and essentially being unable to die (because, unless they shatter you into bits, someone can repair you back up from Destroyed level damage).

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

With the right choices, that's actually 2 extra second rank skills and a 1st rank for the third. Making it worth an extra 25 instead of extra 15... So, 30-40 points left vs 60, and immune to food and air (also worth 10), and essentially being unable to die (because, unless they shatter you into bits, someone can repair you back up from Destroyed level damage).

I'm confused, is that a house rule? My understanding from the creation rules is they get one rank in 6 skills, not 6 skill ranks. So 1/1/1/1/1/1/1. Then when they pick a spec, they get one rank in 3 skills. So typically 2/2/1/1/1/1/1 in a spec that offers 2 same skills (pretty rare actually). A non droid in that situation would have 2/2/1/1. If the stars align, they can get 2/2/2/1/1/1 in their career skills, but few specs have 3 overlaps from career. I'm sure there's probably one in a splat somewhere though

Food and water wont be an issue in many games. Coupled with air its an iffy 10 points given you can get suits/rebreathers or whatever, but toxins might bring it up to par, particularly if the party uses it to their advantage (pump gas into a room or something).

Also, unless it's specifically stated, droids "die" the same as meatbags, on a roll of 141+ on the crit table. Their vibrobrain or whatever is too damaged to be recovered. Is there something different in the special modifications book? We havent delved too much into that as we just got it.

The cybernetics thing is also nice from a RP perspective. We were talking about how most people arent willing to chop off their leg for a +1 Agility, but its a non-issue for a droid.

I'm still trying to figure out a minor boost, leaning towards just giving ranks and letting them train their bonus career skills to 3 at creation.

 

[aramis erak]

I'm confused, is that a house rule? My understanding from the creation rules is they get one rank in 6 skills, not 6 skill ranks. So 1/1/1/1/1/1/1. Then when they pick a spec, they get one rank in 3 skills. So typically 2/2/1/1/1/1/1 in a spec that offers 2 same skills (pretty rare actually). A non droid in that situation would have 2/2/1/1. If the stars align, they can get 2/2/2/1/1/1 in their career skills, but few specs have 3 overlaps from career. I'm sure there's probably one in a splat somewhere though

Nope. Not a house rule at all - but it highlights that you don't understand the process.

Note that they get 6 ranks in their career skills, and then a separate 3 ranks in their specialty's skills, and THOSE are allowed to overlap...
The easiest way to point it out is that if the droid couldn't get level 2's, they couldn't be Ace Drivers nor Ace Pilots...

Ace  Skills  Ⓐ Astrogation, Cool, Gunnery, Mechanics, Perception, Piloting (Planetary), Piloting (Space), Ranged (Light)

Ace Driver Ⓐ Cool, Gunnery, Mechanics, Piloting (Planetary)
Ace Gunner Ⓐ Discipline, Gunnery, Ranged (Heavy), Resilience
Ace Pilot Ⓐ Astrogation, Gunnery, Piloting (Planetary), Piloting (Space)

So the driver or pilot can get any of the specialty skills to 2 ranks with careful selection for the overlaps.
The gunner gan get only Gunnery at two ranks.

Similar for the Explorer in Edge:
Explorer  Skills  Ⓔ Astrogation,, Cool, Perception, Piloting (Space), Surival, Kn. (Lore), Kn. (Outer Rim), Kn. (Xenology)
Explorer Fringer Ⓔ Astrogation, Coordination, Negotiation, Streetwise
Explorer Scout Ⓔ Athletics, Piloting (Planet), Survival, Medicine
Explorer Trader Ⓔ Deception, Negotiation, Kn. (Core Worlds), Kn. (Underworld)

Fringer can get Astrogation 2 without spending points
Scout can get Suvival,
Trader can get none...

Hired Gun:
Hired Gun  Skills  Ⓔ Athletics, Discipline, Piloting (Planet), Resilience, Vigilance, Brawl, Melee, Ranged (Light)
Hired Gun Bodyguard Ⓔ Perception, Piloting (Planet), Gunnery, Ranged (Heavy)
Hired Gun Marauder Ⓔ Coercion, Resilience, Survival, Melee
Hired Gun Mercenary Ⓔ Discipline, Leadership, Gunnery, Ranged (Heavy)

Points are spent after this process.

Which is why my homebrew notes the difference between career class and specialty - so I can more readily check in the CGen process.

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

Unless you're treating the ranks like the human ability (and the text is different), I dont understand how to make it worth 25 exp. Few specs have more than 2 overlaps (and the droid can only get a third anyways).

Prior to spending racial starting exp
The droid ace gets gunnery 2, astrogation 2, pilot 2 and 3 skills at 1.
The rodian gets, lets say, gunner 2, astrogation 2, and 2 skills at 1.

In the best case scenario I could see, they get an extra 20 exp.The droid hired gun, for example, is still only 15 points over his competition (5-10 really, as most races get 1 rank in a skill)

Am I missing something? Thanks for helping me with this btw!