Drowning in (Character Sheet) Details

[GMMichael]

A post on the D&D 5e version of Charm Person got me thinking - 5e implemented the perfect system to handle the Charm Person spell, but they didn't utilize that system. Rather than spending 10+ lines describing how Charm Person works, the spell description could be:

You become a Bond of the humanoid target. A Wisdom save negates the effect.

The Bonds section gets about 2-3% of one side of a character sheet. So even if the Charm Person spell could use Bonds as a resource, would the player using that character sheet ever notice? How often do the Traits, Flaws, Bonds, and Ideals get overlooked simply because they're not front-and-center (like Hit Points and Attacks) or the first thing on the left in flashy boxes (like Ability Scores)?

Does character sheet design affect how you play? Do you like a clean character sheet, or one with lots of information, design, and detail?

For contrast:

Numenera Character Sheets - Monte Cook Games

A character sheet is a character sheet–right? Not if it’s the Numenera character sheet! The Numenera character sheet is as […]

www.montecookgames.com

https://www.evilhat.com/home/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/Fate-Core-Character-Sheet.pdf

 

[Umbran]

the spell description could be:

You become a Bond of the humanoid target. A Wisdom save negates the effect.

So... if the target acts like the caster is important, the target gets a point of Inspiration? Is that really what Charm Person is supposed to do?

Does character sheet design affect how you play? Do you like a clean character sheet, or one with lots of information, design, and detail?

For contrast:

Well, note how that contrast is less about the character sheet design than it is the game design itself. That FATE sheet has less detail, but has pretty much all the details the game calls for.

And, Bonds, Flaws, and Ideas don't get lots of space on the sheet, because they all feed into the same mechanic - Inspiration. And you can only have on point of Inspiration at a time, so there's not a whole lot of management to be done there.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

How often do the Traits, Flaws, Bonds, and Ideals get overlooked simply because they're not front-and-center (like Hit Points and Attacks) or the first thing on the left in flashy boxes (like Ability Scores)?

More likely, the reverse is true: those things have the place on the character sheet that they do, because the rules are inherently ignorable.

The whole thing with Traits and Bonds was an attempt to codify the personality of a character, but you don't actually need those rules as long as you remember to role-play the character. Having a spell that requires you to interact with that sub-system would have been counter-productive.

 

[Man in the Funny Hat]

Does character sheet design affect how you play?

Only insofar as it supports how I play, it doesn't determine how I play.

Do you like a clean character sheet, or one with lots of information, design, and detail?

I like a character sheet to have the most important and frequently used information on one page and easy to find. As a rule I am a far better judge of what else I want to track in detail that isn't on that one page and am probably better served by scratch paper for recording it than a comprehensive multiple-page character sheet. If I have to keep looking for things on a second/third/fourth page, that information isn't where it should be for how I play. Example: The current sheet I have for 5E has perception in alphabetical order on a long list of all the skills - as they all do. Given the (IMO) great over-reliance that DM's have on it, that isn't where it should be. It should be called out by itself, front and center, in accordance with the importance and frequency of use.

But that's me.

 

[Ralif Redhammer]

Maybe not how, but definitely what. If I can't keep track of my character using one double-sided character sheet, that's probably not a game I'm going to play.

Does character sheet design affect how you play? Do you like a clean character sheet, or one with lots of information, design, and detail?

 

[Lanefan]

Does character sheet design affect how you play?

It probably would, if I ever used pre-made character sheets, in that I'd be a grumpier player because what I wanted to find NOW wouldn't always be in a place where I could find it NOW, because there'd usualy be too much space taken up with information not related to this particular character.

For example, I don't need a list of Thieving skills on a sheet for a non-Thief; I don't need space for spells-known on a sheet for a Fighter; I don't need much space for combat details on an arcane caster's sheet, and so on. I don't need a line for night-vision for a Human character. Etc.

The problem with premade character sheets is that they're usually trying to be generic, and so they have to include space for all these things whether relevant or not. And even if the sheets are made class-specific that's still not going to account for houserules or non-standard systems - or multiclass characters, for all that.

Do you like a clean character sheet, or one with lots of information, design, and detail?

Both. I like a character sheet that has the info I need for that character right where I can quickly find it. Which means, other than some very basic what-goes-where (e.g. base stats top left, race-class-age-height-weight top centre, etc.), every character sheet I have is somewhat different from the others; and I either use a very minimalist premade form* I made up myself or a blank sheet of paper as a starting point.

* - this only includes space for things all characters will have no matter what: every character has 6 base stats, for example; and an age, height, weight, and birthday; an armour class; hit points; mundane adventuring gear; nationality and-or language(s) spoken; and a few other things unique to our games. Oh, and a name. Most of them have a name.

 

[Scott Christian]

I believe the character sheet is the most overlooked design of almost all RPG's.

It affects how you play, (what you do) especially for new players.
It affects the timing of the game.
It even affects your player's outlook on scenes.

 

[Campbell]

I support the inclination to use something like bond mechanics here to help model in the player's head what is going on in the fiction. Unfortunately inspiration is simply not compelling enough. There are too many ways to get advantage for that. Ask my Barbarian. I get advantage to darn near everything that matters anyway.

 

[Blue]

The character sheet is the first thing the players look at when they aren't sure how to proceed. Not it's only use, but one of it's most important. What's visible - and how visible - affects play. And many sheets get that all wrong. For examples, so many sheets that have the ability scores in large boxes are missing the point - an ability score never affects a session-in-play. The modifier is useful, the ability score not so much.

I make my own sheets for every character. Everything that could affect play is on the front of the page, with things bolded and such. Easy enough in a word processor or a spreadsheet if you want to be fancier. I often do character sheets landscape instead of portrait - fits the nature of descriptions better. Though I paraphrase and abbreviate to make them fit on one line as much as possible.

The back contains other information I may want at the table but not in general play - maybe campaign notes, names of NPCs and places, etc. I have a cheap black & white laser printer and have no problems reprinting every few sessions.

Getting to the other part of the OP, Bonds and such seem to be subconsciously discardable. While NOT a variant like feats or multiclass, the two most commonly added in, they aren't something familiar from earlier editions, they way they are designed puts a large load on the DM - remembering five traits per character, and they have no rules tie in anywhere outside themselves. No wonder most character sheets relegate them off the first page and into obscurity.

 

[GMMichael]

So... if the target acts like the caster is important, the target gets a point of Inspiration? Is that really what Charm Person is supposed to do?
. . . And, Bonds, Flaws, and Ideas don't get lots of space on the sheet, because they all feed into the same mechanic - Inspiration. And you can only have on point of Inspiration at a time, so there's not a whole lot of management to be done there.

If you believe that bonds, flaws, and ideals are only good for Inspiration, then they should probably take up less space on the character sheet.

Maybe not how, but definitely what. If I can't keep track of my character using one double-sided character sheet, that's probably not a game I'm going to play.

Indeed. My stomach churns as soon as I hear "page three of the character sheet." I can see multiple pages for different game modes, like if a futuristic game had a page for your personal character, one for your battle-mech, and one for your cyberspace projection. But if it's just more and more lists, no thanks.

The character sheet is the first thing the players look at when they aren't sure how to proceed. Not it's only use, but one of it's most important. What's visible - and how visible - affects play. And many sheets get that all wrong.

Forsooth. How would we play D&D if half of the character sheet, page one, consisted of name, class, alignment, flaws, bonds, traits, and ideals? And character image?

A lot of players would just leave page two turned up, right?