Druid: Hybrid of What?

[Destil]

Trying my hand at making a Hybrid non-shapeshifting Controller / Leader druid using what we know about 4E I noticed something interesting when choosing HP.

HP is about the most clear cut dividing line we've seen so far across the rolls, with BAB unified and skill points gone (though 2 of our 3 strikers seem to get 2 additional trained skills this seems to come more from their niche and flavor).

Defenders are getting 15 HP + Con + 6/level
Strikers & Leaders are getting 12 + Con + 5/Level
Our controller gets 10 + Con + 4/level

So for this to stay true (I'm not saying it has to) our druid is going to need to be a hybrid Striker / Leader or Defender / Controller (slight rounding error but otherwise an average of the two).

From what we've seen for flavor I think controller as one half (the weather magic half) is a rather strong case. While shapeshifting can go towards either striker or defender.

But this HP quandary is leading me to believe we'll be seeing the beefy melee shape shifter half the time and a storm bringing nature priest the other half.

Anyone else have any good speculation?

Or for that matter any idea how to balance a hybrid that doesn't need to shapeshift to fill their dual roles? Right now I'm attempting to giving them lots of powers that are a bit weaker than the Cleric / Wizard in their respective rolls as a base (though not bad hopefully), but with optional costs (sustain minor and such) that can kick them to nearly the same level. So between economy of actions and limited power selection you could try and fulfill both roles enough to be useful, albeit with difficulty, but not at the same time or the level of the specialized class.

 

[malcolm_n]

Here are some controller-esque powers I created for the druid who doesn't want to focus on wildshape.

Chill
Druid Attack 1
A natural cold runs down your enemy’s spine and into his bones.
Encounter Primal, Cold, Implement
Standard Action Ranged 5
Target: One Creature
Attack: Wis vs. Fortitude
Hit: 1d6 + Wis cold damage and target slowed until the beginning of your next turn.
Sustain Minor: The target is slowed (save ends).

Magic Stones
Druid Attack 1
Pulling 3 stones from the ground, you request nature’s blessing and throw them into the air to find their targets.
Encounter Primal, Implement
Standard Action Ranged 5
Target: Up to 3 creatures
Special: Pick targets before rolling attack. You may pick the same target more than once.
Attack: Str, Dex, or Wis vs. Reflex
Hit: 1d6 + Wis damage to each target

Thorns
Druid Attack 1
Sharp thorns grow as if from nowhere and hinder your foe's progression toward the party.
At-will Primal, Implement
Standard Action Ranged 5
Target: One Creature
Attack: Wis vs. Fortitude
Hit: 1d6 + Wis damage and identical damage if target moves before the start of your next turn.

Over Heat
Druid Attack 1
At-will Primal, Fire, Implement
The enemy's skin flushes and sweat breaks over it's brow. You concentrate and begin to cook him from within.
Standard Action Ranged 5
Target: One Creature
Attack: Wis vs. Fortitude
Hit: 1d6 + Wis fire damage
Special: If you hit the target with this spell in the previous round, you deal 2d6 + Wis fire damage instead.

 

[Destil]

Here's what I've gotten so far, not sure if it's over or under powered...

Druid
Role: Leader / Controller Hybrid
Power Source: Nature
Key Abilities: Wisdom
Armor: Leather, Hide
Weapons: Staff, Spear, Shortbow, Scimitar
Bonus to Def: +1 Will, +1 Fort

Trained Skills: 4 + Nature
Hit Points at 1st level: 12 + Con Score
Hit points per level gained: 5
Healing Surges: 6 + Con

Regrowth of Spring Druid Class Feature
You or an ally fight on as their strength is renewed.
Encounter*Nature, Implement
Minor Action Ranged 5
Target: You or one ally.
Effect: At the end of the target's turn they can spend a healing surge to recover HP equal to half their normal surge amount plus your wisdom modifier as a free action.
Sustain minor: You can spend a minor action to sustain this power for one additional round. The target does not need to spend a second healing surge on the second turn.


Wear of the World Druid Attack 1
Your strike causes iron to rust, stone to crumble, wood to splinter.
At will*Nature, Weapon
Standard Action Melee
Target: One Creature
Attack: Str vs. AC
Hit: 1[W]+Wis damage and target suffers a -2 AC penalty until the end of your next action.

Tanglethorns Druid Attack 1
Grass, plants or the very land below your foe lashes out at them, barbed with cruel spikes.
At will*Nature, Implement
Standard Action Ranged 5
Target: One Creature
Attack: Wis vs. Reflex
Hit: 1d6+Wis damage and slide the target up to two squares.


Heat Metal Druid Attack 1
You turn your opponent's reliance on the forge against them.
Encounter*Nature, Implement
Standard Action Ranged 10
Target: Metal equipment an opponent wields.
Attack: Wis vs. Will
Hit: 2d6+Wis fire damage and ongoing 3 fire damage (save ends) to a creature wielding metal gear.
Sustain Standard: Make a new attack roll each round, the target must still be in range. Each round you deal 1d6+Wis fire damage and the ongoing damage increases by 3 until you miss or the target makes a saving throw.

Shillelagh Druid Attack 1
Wood strikes harder than stone, truer than steel.
Encounter*Nature
Move Action Ranged 10
Target: One wooden weapon.
Effect: The weapon gains a bonus to damage equal to your wisdom modifier.
Sustain Minor.
Special: You can only enhance one weapon at a time.

Frigid Gale Druid Attack 1
An icy blast of air drives your opponents back.
Encounter*Nature, Cold, Implement
Standard Action Close Area Blast 2
Attack: Wisdom vs. Reflex
Target: Each creature in blast
Hit: 1d8 + Wis Cold damage, targets are pushed 2 squares.
Miss: Half damage.


Entangling Briers Druid Attack 1
Vines and Thorns spring from the ground, writhing and entangling your foes.
Daily*Nature
Standard Action Area Burst 2
Attack: Wis Vs. Reflex
Target: Each creature in burst
Hit: 2d4+wis damage and and slowed (save ends).
Miss: Half damage.
Sustain Move: You can sustain this power up to one round per point of wisdom bonus, making a new attack against each creature in the area each round.
Sustain Hit: 1d4+wis damage dazed until the end of your next turn.
Sustain Miss: No effect.

Faerie Fire Druid Attack 1
Lurid silver flames burst from the target, weakening them and catching others alight.
Daily*Nature, Impelement, Fire
Standard Action Ranged 15
Target: One creature
Attack: Wis vs. Will
Hit: 2d6+wis fire damage. The target suffers -2 to all defenses and -10 to stealth (save ends). Make a secondary attack.
Miss: Half damage, the creature suffers -1 to all defenses and -5 to stealth until the end of your next turn.
Secondary targets: All adjacent creatures.
Secondary Attack: Wis vs. Will
Hit: 1d6+Wis fire damage, -1 to all defenses and -5 to stealth until the start of your next turn.
Miss: No effect

Barkskin Druid Utility 2
The target's skin hardens like wood.
Encounter*Nature, Implement
Minor Action Ranged 5
Target: One creature
Effect: The creature gains resistance 5 against all non-fire attacks for one round.


And some Eberron specific druid feats, since Eberron druids are awesome.

Gatekeeper Initiate
You can use either Bane of the Unnatural or Sanctity of Nature once per encounter.
Bane of the Unnatural Druid (Gatekeeper) Attack 1
You return a gross distortion of life to a more natural state.
Encounter*Nature
Free Action Personal
Trigger: You hit an Aberrant creature with an attack.
Effect: The attack deals an additional 1d6 damage and make a secondary attack.
Secondary Attack: Wis vs. Will
Hit: The target is also dazed until the end of your next turn.
Sanctity of Nature Druid (Gatekeeper) Utility 1
Your connection to the natural world aids your defense.
Encounter*Nature
Free Action Ranged 5
Trigger: You or an ally within range attempts a saving throw.
Effect: The target gains a +1 power bonus to their next saving throw, if the save is against an effect from an Aberrant creature the bonus is instead +4.

Greensinger Initiate
Faerie Lore: Choose a Fey Pact Warlock at-will power, you can use it as an encounter power. It is a nature power for you, not an arcane power.

Child of Winter
A Cold Death: When you kill a creature any of their allies within your line of sight suffer a -2 penalty to attacks until the end of your next action.

Ashbound Initiate
Entropic Touch: Your Wear of the World Power attacks reflex defense instead of AC. On a hit it causes a -2 penalty to AC, Defenses and Saves until the end of your next action.

 

[malcolm_n]

Hehe, I love new powers. That we can come up with so many with such little information is a true testiment to the coolness of 4th ed. Here are some suggested changes and an addition or two. For space, I'll include an explanation on a couple

Regrowth of Spring Druid Class Feature
You or an ally fight on as their strength is renewed.
Encounter*Nature, Implement
Minor Action Ranged 5
Target: You or one ally.
Effect: At the end of the target's turn they can spend a healing surge to recover HP equal to half their normal surge amount plus your wisdom modifier as a free action.
Sustain minor: You can spend a minor action to sustain this power for one additional round. The target does not need to spend a second healing surge on the second turn.

(since we can give up move/standard actions for minor, can we just give up our move this round and have it extended? Or do we need to wait until the following round?)

Heat Metal Druid Attack 1
You turn your opponent's reliance on the forge against them.
Encounter*Nature, Implement
Standard Action Ranged 10
Target: Metal equipment an opponent wields.
Attack: Wis vs. Will
Hit: 2d6+Wis fire damage to a creature wielding metal gear.
Sustain Minor: Target takes Wis fire damage (save ends).

(This is very similar to my original plan for over heat; which was going to be heat metal. In mine, I felt that targeting the metal specifically would be too narrow for a 4e power, so I made the target general. On yours, and even with the narrow constraint, it's a little powerful and overcomplicated. Finally, sustain standard means you're doing nothing else until you give up the power or lose it. This is a big part of what WotC has been trying to get away from in the new edition; at least so they've said up to now.)

Shillelagh Druid Attack 1
Wood strikes harder than stone, truer than steel.
Encounter*Nature
Move Action Ranged 10
Target: One wooden weapon.
Effect: The weapon gains a bonus to damage equal to your wisdom modifier until the start of your next turn.
Sustain Minor.
Special: You can only enhance one weapon at a time.

I like this one; my original on this was

Shillelagh
Druid Attack 1
Daily Primal, Implement, Weapon
Standard Action
Requirements: The chosen weapon must be made of wood.
Target: One creature
Attack: Wis +1 vs. AC
Hit: 3[W] + Str +1 damage and you gain +1 attack and damage for the rest of the encounter.
Miss: You gain +1 attack and damage for the rest of the encounter.

Frigid Gale Druid Attack 1
An icy blast of air drives your opponents back.
Encounter*Nature, Cold, Implement
Standard Action Close Area Blast 2
Attack: Wisdom vs. Reflex
Target: Each creature in blast
Hit: 1d8 + Wis Cold damage, targets are pushed 2 squares.
Miss: Half damage and targets are pushed (1 or 2?) square(s

)
Needed clarification on this.

Entangling Briars Druid Attack 1
Vines and Thorns spring from the ground, writhing and entangling your foes.
Daily*Nature
Standard Action Area Burst 2
Attack: Wis Vs. Reflex
Target: Each creature in burst
Hit: 2d4+wis damage and target is slowed (save ends).
Miss: Half damage.
Sustain Move: You can sustain this power up to one round per point of wisdom bonus, making a new attack against each creature in the area each round.
Sustain Hit: 1d4+wis damage dazed until the end of your next turn.
Sustain Miss: No effect.

* 2d4 + Wis damage = as powerful as wizard at-will power
* Target is slowed (save ends) = On par with Ray of Frost
* Miss: 1/2 damage = ups power a bit (is target still slowed? If so, it's up to encounter status atm).
* Sustain Move: One Round per point of Wis bonus = too complicated and removes a nonstandard resource. So far, only minor actions have been sustaining factors so that you don't lose playability (see sustain standard above).
* New Attack each round within area = a tad complicated, but workable. To keep it daily status I'd say just keep the "sustain hit" damage above and remove dazed so you don't risk book-keeping which ones are taking damage, which are not, and trying to explain when they're actually free if at all until they're out of the area.

Faerie Fire Druid Attack 1
Lurid silver flames burst from the target, weakening them and catching others alight.
Daily*Nature, Impelement, Fire
Standard Action Ranged 15
Target: One creature
Attack: Wis vs. Will
Hit: 2d6+wis fire damage. The target suffers -2 to all defenses and -10 to stealth (save ends). Make a secondary attack.
Miss: Half damage, the creature suffers -1 to all defenses and -5 to stealth until the end of your next turn.
Secondary targets: All adjacent creatures.
Secondary Attack: Wis vs. Will
Hit: 1d6+Wis fire damage, -1 to all defenses and -5 to stealth until the start of your next turn.
Miss: No effect

* 2d6 + Wis fire damage, then some, then attack again = alright power for daily
* Miss: Complicates it and pushes the power a little high without anything else. also, do we still make the second attack?
* Secondary Targets and attack = On par with force orb (encounter) so still balanced
* Half effect to all around initial target = A bit powerful, even for a daily and creates book keeping.
* Until the start of your next turn = brings the power back down

Barkskin Druid Utility 2
The target's skin hardens like wood.
Encounter*Nature, Implement
Minor Action Ranged 5
Target: One creature
Effect: The creature gains resistance 5 against all non-fire attacks for one round.

This one is awesome!

Gatekeeper Initiate
You can use either Bane of the Unnatural or Sanctity of Nature once per encounter.
Bane of the Unnatural Druid (Gatekeeper) Druid Feature
You return a gross distortion of life to a more natural state.
Encounter*Nature
Free Action Personal
Trigger: You hit an Aberrant creature with an attack.
Effect: The attack deals an additional 1d6 damage and make a secondary attack.
Secondary Attack: Wis vs. Will
Hit: The target is also dazed until the end of your next turn.

Sanctity of Nature Druid (Gatekeeper) Druid Feature
Your connection to the natural world aids your defense.
Encounter*Nature
Free Action Ranged 5
Trigger: You or an ally within range attempts a saving throw.
Effect: The target gains a +1 power bonus to their next saving throw, if the save is against an effect from an Aberrant creature the bonus is instead +4.

even power with each; label them druid features to avoid stepping on toes (utilities so far are even levels)

Greensinger Initiate
Faerie Lore: Choose a Fey Pact Warlock at-will power, you can use it as an encounter power. It is a nature power for you, not an arcane power.

This would seriously be my eberron Druid. Alternatively, I'd let feylocks pick a druid at-will for an encounter as well if they're in the greensingers.

Child of Winter
A Cold Death: When you kill a creature any of their allies within your line of sight suffer a -2 penalty to attacks until the end of your next action.

Again, well balanced

Ashbound Initiate
Entropic Touch: Your Wear of the World Power attacks reflex defense instead of AC. On a hit it causes a -2 penalty to AC, Defenses and Saves until the end of your next action.

A bit powerful for level 1 since attacking reflex is really ignoring armor completely. I'd leave it as is without the -2 to all the extra. Just ac, just defenses, or just saves would be fine.

All in all, very well put together, just a few things I thought I'd suggest. Hope it helps and let me know what you think.