D&D 5E Druid WILD SHAPE !

[Klaus]

Try an Earth elemental instead. I cant be stuffed doing the maths but its an extra 252 HP per Short rest for the Druid. Also note, at 18th level, the Druid can cast spells in this form. Including 9th level spells. Like Foresight (8 hours no concentration required).

I believe you mean 126 hp, since an elemental form eats up two uses of Wild Shape. And the druid can't cast Foresight while wild shaped (can't provide material components, which Foresight does have, along with a one minute casting time). Of the 9th-level spells, the only one he can cast is Storm of Vengeance, which would also hit the druid. He could cast and maintain a 9th-level Call Lightning (9d10 lightning damage once per round), provided he doesn't lose concentration, and target a spot that hits the fighter but not himself. Of course, then he's not using his form's attacks.

In 2 levels time its an extra 252 hit points every single round (126 hit points per round from attacks against magic weapons) for the druid. Even Action Surging, and totally disregarding spells, the Fighter simply cant win a fight with this Druid (barring catching him asleep).

At 18th level, a druid is better off casting Shapechange (since Max CR equals his level) to turn into something like an Adult Gold Dragon. But that's beside the Wild Shape point. And at that level, a Champion Fighter (for instance) is regenerating 10 hp per round.

Case in point: can a Circle of the Moon Druid defeat a Fighter? Yes, he can. Is it a sure thing? No, it could go either way.

 

[Khasimir]

I dont agree with this at all.

Your way of reigning in the Druids (OP but signature and defining) class feature... is to punish the other PC's when he uses it?

If you check out my original post, I listed a few things to the druid. The one in particular you are referencing is that if he Wild Shapes without announcing it to the party. Every time, he's simply stated, "hey guys, I'm going to change into XXX" then he shapes. Possible disadvantage avoided.

 

[Khasimir]

That's just ridiculous.

Fireballs, lycanthropes, mind flayers and eldritch sorcery all around, and no one bats an eye. One dude turns into an animal and suddenly they're all "OMGWhat??? I can't take it!!!"

Think of it more along the lines of a mechanic abstracting someone who's focused on combat realizing that there's a snarling wolf suddenly adjacent to them. Is it friendly, or will it attack them? Do they need to move away, etc.

Another way I thought about playing it was for the druid to pass me a note saying "I turn into XXX". Then I call out to the players adjacent to them that XXX animal is in their midst. The added work it would create along with possible confusion and the need to police what the players know (the druid must be in animal form since he only responds to my question of if the wolf is him by howling) compared to what their characters know just seemed to be way more effort than just asking him to announce it first.

 

[Wepwawet]

Think of it more along the lines of a mechanic abstracting someone who's focused on combat realizing that there's a snarling wolf suddenly adjacent to them. Is it friendly, or will it attack them? Do they need to move away, etc.

But people who are focused on combat are aware of everything around them. They obviously know it's their druid turned into something else. They even saw it happen (remember, there are no rules for facing, in a 6 sec. round you easily get a 360º view of your surroundings)

Otherwise you might as well include surprise attacks every round of combat. As in, suddenly out of nowhere, you have an orc next to you attacking, if you didn't see it you get disadvantage.

 

[Flamestrike]

I believe you mean 126 hp, since an elemental form eats up two uses of Wild Shape

The elemental form has resistance to non magic weapons. Which is effecively 252 HP per short rest as 95 percent of all monster damage from CR 10 onwards is halved.

And the druid can't cast Foresight while wild shaped (can't provide material components, which Foresight does have, along with a one minute casting time).

Why cant an Earth elemental (humanoid form) provide the material components or foci for foresight? He puts his foci down on the ground, shifts picks it up and casts, Or (seeing as it last 8 hours) casts, then shifts.

At 18th level, a druid is better off casting Shapechange (since Max CR equals his level) to turn into something like an Adult Gold Dragon. But that's beside the Wild Shape point. And at that level, a Champion Fighter (for instance) is regenerating 10 hp per round.

10 HP a round at 18th level when at half HP or less? At 20th level the Moon druid is regenerating between 126 ro 252 HP per roUnd. Every round. Without spending any resources other than a bonus action to do it.

Thats a 1200% to 2500% percent superior ability than the Fighters ability.

Case in point: can a Circle of the Moon Druid defeat a Fighter? Yes, he can. Is it a sure thing? No, it could go either way.

The fact a Moon Druid (full caster chassis, with unlimited utility via wildhsape) can - best case scenario for the Fighter - equal the Fighter (and for half the Druid and Fighters career best) the Fighter at.... fighting, irks me.

Hey look Fighter; I can do your job as good if not better than you. Also; I have full 9th level spellcasting... and utility you can only dream of!

Doesnt fly in my games.

 

[ccooke]

DnD isnt a PvP game, but I can highlight the melee combat potency of the Druid best in the following example:

Build a 3rd level Fighter with any PHB weapons you want and any armor up to Splint mail (appropriate for that level). Use point buy for stats. Fully healed and no resources expended. Choose any archetype, race and feat you want.

He's up against a (variant) Human Moon Druid 3. Wisdom, Dex and Con all 16 (Str, Cha, Int all 8). Resilient (Constitution) feat. Barksin already cast (lasts an hour), but I wont use any other spells during the combat to make it 'fair' and because of the long rest recovery (despite having 4 1sts and another 2nd level spell plus cantrips). Is also is already in Bear form (it lasts an hour, and is only a bonus action to assume). Wearing leather armor with a scimitar and shield, sling and ammo, and dagger 'underneath'.

30' x 30' room. 10' ceilings. 20 feet apart, backs to walls. Thunderdome style. I have my money on the Druid.

This is only to highlight that the Druid is fighting better than the Fighter.

Okay. What you're doing there, though, is building a scenario which massively favours a simple, brutal fight and then giving the druid effectively a full round extra. That's what you're doing by allowing the druid to have cast a spell (Barkskin takes an action to cast. Shapeshifting is a bonus action. That's a round the Druid gets to prepare that you have denied the fighter).

Yes, when you make a completely unfair scenario, you can safely bet on the side you've favoured. Even then, there are fighter builds that would work well.

For what it's worth, both of the 5e games I run have a moon druid in them. I have, as yet, seen no evidence at all for the class being overpowered in play.

 

[Khasimir]

But people who are focused on combat are aware of everything around them. They obviously know it's their druid turned into something else. They even saw it happen (remember, there are no rules for facing, in a 6 sec. round you easily get a 360º view of your surroundings)

I absolutely disagree with this but we don't play in each others campaigns, so it's ok
The druid has zero problems with it and the specific circumstance has never come up since he always announces it beforehand.

 

[Diamabel]

I absolutely disagree with this but we don't play in each others campaigns, so it's ok
The druid has zero problems with it and the specific circumstance has never come up since he always announces it beforehand.

If the druids fellow combatants were unfamiliar with their companions shapeshifting..sure, it would be a shock. But after a time, you'd think they would just get used to it.

 

[Flamestrike]

Okay. What you're doing there, though, is building a scenario which massively favours a simple, brutal fight and then giving the druid effectively a full round extra. That's what you're doing by allowing the druid to have cast a spell (Barkskin takes an action to cast. Shapeshifting is a bonus action. That's a round the Druid gets to prepare that you have denied the fighter).

Yes, when you make a completely unfair scenario, you can safely bet on the side you've favoured. Even then, there are fighter builds that would work well.

For what it's worth, both of the 5e games I run have a moon druid in them. I have, as yet, seen no evidence at all for the class being overpowered in play.

Both things last 1 hour.

But sure, Lets assume the Druid is surprised. Ill start the encounter in human form and will waste a round casring barkskin and shifting.

Druid still wins.

 

[PnPgamer]

Barkskin is also concentration, so getting in a single hit may dissipate it immediately. Especially ones that can drop half of the forms hp in single round.