dual implement spellcaster + a staff

[evilbob]

I had always assumed for this feat to work, you needed a different implement in your off-hand. However, recently using the Character Builder, I noticed that it gave the off-hand bonus to damage when wielding a staff, regardless. Presumably, this is from having a two-handed implement fulfilling the feat's requirement of "wielding a magic implement in each hand".

I wrote Cust Serv (controversial, I know) and asked if this was a bug or if that's the way it is supposed to work. The answer was that it was supposed to work that way.

Is this how others interpret this feat?

 

[BobTheNob]

Its not how I would interpret the feat. That said, in terms of game balance, I wouldnt have any real problem with it. It does really tip the scales at all. In fact, if a player wanted to carry a staff, and only a staff, for thematic purposes, they are not left out as a result.

Its weird, but I like it

 

[N0Man]

I disagree with CustServ on this one, at least as how you described it here. A staff is a 2-handed weapon, but it is not considered wielding a staff in each hand just like wielding a 2-handed sword does not count as wielding a weapon in each hand.

However, there is a published feat called Staff Fighting which allows you to treat a staff as a double weapon with stout and defensive properties with the secondary end gaining off-hand properties.

With that, a staff becomes a double weapon, which is effectively treated as 2 weapons mechanically, which I would further treat as dual implements (with that feat as well).

I think what you are saying is completely valid, just requiring an additional feat. This answer was also given by CustServ in the past, and it sounds to be a more reasonable rules interpretation to me.

 

[Nifft]

Huh, I thought you needed to take the Staff Fighting feat (from Dragon) to make a Staff count as two weapons. It's an expensive pair of teats for a Wizard, but the payoff is huge at Paragon, and only increases with level.

I think CustServ should re-throw the coin they used to answer this question.

Cheers, -- N

 

[CovertOps]

Huh, I thought you needed to take the Staff Fighting feat (from Dragon) to make a Staff count as two weapons. It's an expensive pair of teats for a Wizard, but the payoff is huge at Paragon, and only increases with level.

I think CustServ should re-throw the coin they used to answer this question.

Cheers, -- N

I didn't know you could buy "teats". And what exactly would you do with them???

 

[evilbob]

I didn't know you could buy "teats". And what exactly would you do with them???

Son, if you need help with that, you been playin' D&D too long.

(Sorry, could not resist)

 

[evilbob]

I agree the answer seemed random but I wondered if anyone else had come up with a similar interpretation/response.

Seems like the best way to handle it is take the staff fighting feat; +1 AC and the issue is sidestepped.


An addendum: the CB also adds the main-hand staff weapon's enhancement bonus to damage regardless of your off-hand weapon; so, if you were carrying a +3 staff and a +1 orb (or a +5 orb), it still adds +3 as an off-hand bonus, thanks to that feat.

This seems like a pretty clear bug to me - others agree?

 

[CovertOps]

I agree the answer seemed random but I wondered if anyone else had come up with a similar interpretation/response.

Seems like the best way to handle it is take the staff fighting feat; +1 AC and the issue is sidestepped.


An addendum: the CB also adds the main-hand staff weapon's enhancement bonus to damage regardless of your off-hand weapon; so, if you were carrying a +3 staff and a +1 orb (or a +5 orb), it still adds +3 as an off-hand bonus, thanks to that feat.

This seems like a pretty clear bug to me - others agree?

That's definitely a bug. The basic issue is that if you equip the staff (one-handed) it should only count as in that one hand. Also if you equip a staff (two-handed) it should also show up in both "hand" slots not just main hand. This also seems like a bug, even if it's tied to the Staff Fighting feat.

In answer to your other comment...what do you do with them when they're not attached to anything???

 

[Nifft]

I didn't know you could buy "teats". And what exactly would you do with them???

They're frequently rented after an adventure, along with some ale.

Son, if you need help with that, you been playin' D&D too long.

(Sorry, could not resist)

Indeed.

Cheers, -- N