Duck Season, Wabbit Season, Actually its...

[Antikinesis]

SRD quotes applicable to caster level for spell storing (emphasis mine, in all cases)...

Magic Item Descriptions
Some individual items, notably those that simply store spells and nothing else, don’t get full-blown descriptions. Simply reference the spell’s description for details, modified by the form of the item (potion, scroll, wand, and so on). Assume that the spell is cast at the minimum level required to cast it, unless the character chooses to make it higher for some reason (which increases the cost of the item; see Table: Calculating Magic Item Gold Piece Values). The main reason to make it higher, of course, would be to increase the power of the spell.

I don't believe this would be applicable to spell-storing weapons, because of the "and nothing else".

Caster Level
The power of the item (just as a spell’s caster level measures its power). The caster level determines the item’s saving throw bonus, as well as range or other level-dependent aspects of the powers of the item (if variable). It also determines the level that must be contended with should the item come under the effect of a dispel magic spell or similar situation.

For potions, scrolls, and wands, the creator can set the caster level of the item at any number high enough to cast the stored spell and not higher than her own caster level. For other magic items, the caster level is determined by the item itself.

Sounds like we need to know the caster level of the magic item to determine the effects of the stored spell.

Caster Level for Weapons
The caster level of a weapon with a special ability is given in the item description.

Nothing tricky here.

Spell Storing
A spell-storing weapon allows a spellcaster to store a single targeted spell of up to 3rd level in the weapon. [...snip...]
Caster Level: 8th; Prerequisites: Craft Magic Arms and Armor, creator must be a caster of at least 12th level; Market Price: +1 bonus.

There ya go. By the rules, a Spell Storing weapon casts the spell as an 8th level caster.

I think the individual DM's will have to decide if Chill Touch lasts for more than one hit, though.

-AK

 

[mkletch]

mk, there not talking about the save DC, there talking about the caster level.

Since "the item itself" does not specify the caster level (i.e. Spell Storing does not say that the spell is duplicated as the original caster, or a fixed level), it is at the minimum level. It is only a +1 ability - what the heck more do you want out of it?

-Fletch!

 

[mkletch]

There ya go. By the rules, a Spell Storing weapon casts the spell as an 8th level caster.

No that is the caster level for the ability, not the spells stored in the ability. This is getting silly...

-Fletch!

 

[Antikinesis]

Since "the item itself" does not specify the caster level (i.e. Spell Storing does not say that the spell is duplicated as the original caster, or a fixed level), it is at the minimum level.

Nope. That "minimum level" rules only applies to items that "simply store spells and nothing else", like scrolls, potions, etc. Weapons do more than just store spells.

No that is the caster level for the ability, not the spells stored in the ability. This is getting silly...

The "caster level for the ability" is what determines the level for "the spells stored in the ability".

The caster level [of the ability] determines the ... level-dependent aspects of the powers of the item (if variable).

The power of the item is the ability to cast spells. The caster level of the stored spell is a level-dependent aspect of the power. The level-dependent aspects of the power is determined by the caster level of the ability. The caster level for spell-storing is 8th level.

Rules-lawyers rule.

-AK

 

[mkletch]

Nope. That "minimum level" rules only applies to items that "simply store spells and nothing else", like scrolls, potions, etc. Weapons do more than just store spells.

The ability is the item in question, not the item as a whole. If I take a wand (which is just really a stick), and enchant it to be a +5 tiny greatclub (caster level 15), that does not mean that the spells in the wand now have a caster level of 15. We are talking about the specific ability. Some items have multiple continuous abilities. That is what this is referring to.

The "caster level for the ability" is what determines the level for "the spells stored in the ability".

So, does this imply that a 1st level cast putting magic missile into a spellstoring item gets an 8th level effect in return. Per this line, every effect coming out of the weapon would be 8th level, or even higher if the overall weapon has a caster level higher than 8th.

Spell storing casts no spells, it simply releases stored magic energy. The stored magical energy does not care what level it is released at, and, per previously quoted rules, does not care what level it was originally cast at. There is no caster level specified for the stored spell, so it is at minimum. Spell storing with caster level of 8 means that the item has a minimum caster level of 8 for purposes of being dispelled, and nothing more.

For the ultra-low cost of a spell storing weapon, you get an infinitely reusable potion (not scroll; that would require the spell to be on someone's list) that can affect others. You simply do not get the option of specifying the caster level of the effects released. That would be ultra-cheese.

The power of the item is the ability to cast spells. The caster level of the stored spell is a level-dependent aspect of the power. The level-dependent aspects of the power is determined by the caster level of the ability. The caster level for spell-storing is 8th level.

You have obviously made up your mind and are only flaming in return. Or just cheese your stored spells to ridiculous levels to 'beat' the game. Your loss. If you still disagree, write the Sage...

-Fletch!

 

[Antikinesis]

The ability is the item in question, not the item as a whole.

Nope. There's rules for wands, and rules for magic weapons, and they're different rules. The item in question is a spell storing weapon.

If I take a wand (which is just really a stick), and enchant it to be a +5 tiny greatclub (caster level 15), that does not mean that the spells in the wand now have a caster level of 15.

Of course not. The ITEM was created as a wand, so you apply the rules for the spell level stored in a wand. If you decide to craft your want into a magic weapon, too, then you apply wand rules when using it as a wand, and magic weapon rules when using it as a weapon. Piece 'o cake.

We are talking about the specific ability. Some items have multiple continuous abilities. That is what this is referring to.

This is referring to a magic weapon, not a wand.

So, does this imply that a 1st level cast putting magic missile into a spellstoring item gets an 8th level effect in return. Per this line, every effect coming out of the weapon would be 8th level, or even higher if the overall weapon has a caster level higher than 8th.

Per the rules, yup. I doubt I'd let a 1st-level wizard have a +2 wpn, tho.

Spell storing casts no spells, it simply releases stored magic energy.

Wrong: " ...the weapon can immediately cast the spell .... Once the spell has been cast, ..."

The stored magical energy does not care what level it is released at, and, per previously quoted rules, does not care what level it was originally cast at.

Agreement! Yay!

There is no caster level specified for the stored spell, so it is at minimum. Spell storing with caster level of 8 means that the item has a minimum caster level of 8 for purposes of being dispelled, and nothing more.

Oooh... disagreement. The rules state otherwise. You've described a perfectly reasonable house rule, though.

For the ultra-low cost of a spell storing weapon, you get an infinitely reusable potion (not scroll; that would require the spell to be on someone's list) that can affect others.

... and has to be "re-charged" by a spell-caster between each use. Balance.

You simply do not get the option of specifying the caster level of the effects released. That would be ultra-cheese.

You don't get the option because the spell level is already determined by the rules, cheese or no cheese.

You have obviously made up your mind and are only flaming in return. Or just cheese your stored spells to ridiculous levels to 'beat' the game. Your loss. If you still disagree, write the Sage...

Made up my mind? Yes. Flaming? Perhaps a little, but not seriously. Cheese my stored spells? Never encountered wpn of spell storing, as player or DM. Still disagree? Yep. Write the Sage? Not that interested, but thanks for the suggestion.

I hope we're about through with this topic... these posts are getting much too long.

-AK