DUDE!! Where the heck is the Mind Flayer??

[Frostmarrow]

If I remember correctly the monsters mentioned were part of "the gentleman's agreement" back in the days. Can someone expand on this? In the first version of the SRD no monsters were included, yet publishers could use stuff from MM instead. The agreement being that publishers could use goblin or dragon but had to steer clear of any IP of WoTC (i.e. beholder).

 

[Alzrius]

If I remember correctly the monsters mentioned were part of "the gentleman's agreement" back in the days. Can someone expand on this? In the first version of the SRD no monsters were included, yet publishers could use stuff from MM instead. The agreement being that publishers could use goblin or dragon but had to steer clear of any IP of WoTC (i.e. beholder).

The Gentleman's Agreement was a sort of proto-SRD. The SRD wasn't finalized when 3E came out...in fact, it took quite a while for the document to be finished. During that time, WotC drafted the Gentleman's Agreement...so named because when the SRD was finished, it was understood that the companies would switch to that...WotC was being gentlemen by letting the other companies use their stuff before the license was finished.

When it was finished, WotC decided that they wanted to keep some things closed content, since they were "quintessentially D&D" and not just d20. This included things such as deity names, NPC names, and a few monsters. If you look at the Legal section of the SRD, you can find the entire list of closed content:

The following items are designated Product Identity, as defined in Section 1(e) of the Open Game License Version 1.0a, and are subject to the conditions set forth in Section 7 of the OGL, and are not Open Content: Dungeons & Dragons, D&D, Dungeon Master, Monster Manual, d20 System, Wizards of the Coast, d20 (when used as a trademark), Forgotten Realms, Faerûn, character names (including those used in the names of spells or items), places, Red Wizard of Thay, Heroic Domains of Ysgard, Ever-Changing Chaos of Limbo, Windswept Depths of Pandemonium, Infinite Layers of the Abyss, Tarterian Depths of Carceri, Gray Waste of Hades, Bleak Eternity of Gehenna, Nine Hells of Baator, Infernal Battlefield of Acheron, Clockwork Nirvana of Mechanus, Peaceable Kingdoms of Arcadia, Seven Mounting Heavens of Celestia, Twin Paradises of Bytopia, Blessed Fields of Elysium, Wilderness of the Beastlands, Olympian Glades of Arborea, Concordant Domain of the Outlands, Sigil, Lady of Pain, Book of Exalted Deeds, Book of Vile Darkness, beholder, gauth, carrion crawler, tanar’ri, baatezu, displacer beast, githyanki, githzerai, mind flayer, illithid, umber hulk, yuan-ti.

 

[Gez]

The topic comes frequently. Where are the illithids/giths/whatever in the SRD? Nowhere, because they're considered unique to D&D, rather than generic fantasy creatures, and thus intellectual property of WotC.

So, for the sake of settling the debate once and for all, here's the list of all creatures in the Monster Manual, and in red, those that are IP and excluded from the SRD.

Aboleth
Aboleth Mage (10th-Level wizard)
Achaierai
Allip
Angel, Astral Deva
Angel, Planetar
Angel, Solar
Animal, Ape
Animal, Baboon
Animal, Badger
Animal, Bat
Animal, Bear, Black Bear
Animal, Bear, Brow Bear
Animal, Bear, Polar Bear
Animal, Bison
Animal, Boar
Animal, Camel
Animal, Cat
Animal, Cheetah
Animal, Crocodile
Animal, Crocodile, Giant Crocodile
Animal, Dog
Animal, Donkey
Animal, Eagle
Animal, Elephant
Animal, Hawk
Animal, Horse, Heavy Horse
Animal, Horse, Heavy Warhorse
Animal, Horse, Light Horse
Animal, Horse, Light Warhorse
Animal, Hyena
Animal, Leopard
Animal, Lion
Animal, Lizard
Animal, Lizard, Monitor
Animal, Manta Ray
Animal, Monkey
Animal, Mule
Animal, Octopus
Animal, Octopus, Giant Octopus
Animal, Owl
Animal, Pony
Animal, Pony, Warpony
Animal, Porpoise
Animal, Rat
Animal, Raven
Animal, Rhinoceros
Animal, Shark, Huge-Sized
Animal, Shark, Large-Sized
Animal, Shark, Medium-Sized
Animal, Snake, Constrictor Snake
Animal, Snake, Giant Constrictor Snake
Animal, Snake, Viper, Huge Viper
Animal, Snake, Viper, Large Viper
Animal, Snake, Viper, Medium Viper
Animal, Snake, Viper, Small Viper
Animal, Snake, Viper, Tiny Viper
Animal, Squid
Animal, Squid, Giant Squid
Animal, Tiger
Animal, Toad
Animal, Weasel
Animal, Whale, Baleen
Animal, Whale, Cachalot
Animal, Whale, Orca
Animal, Wolf
Animal, Wolverine
Animated Object, Colossal
Animated Object, Gargantuan
Animated Object, Huge
Animated Object, Large
Animated Object, Medium
Animated Object, Small
Animated Object, Tiny
Ankheg
Aranea
Archon, Hound Archon
Archon, Hound Archon Hero (11th-Level Paladin)
Archon, Lantern Archon
Archon, Trumpet Archon
Arrowhawk, Adult
Arrowhawk, Elder
Arrowhawk, Juvenile
Assassin Vine
Athach
Azer
Barghest
Barghest, Greater
Basilisk
Basilisk, Abyssal Greater
Behir
Beholder
Beholder, Gauth
Belker
Blink Dog
Bodak
Bugbear
Bulette
Carrion Crawler
Celestial Creature Sample, Lion
Celestial Creature Template
Centaur
Chaos Beast
Chimera
Choker
Chuul
Cloaker
Cockatrice
Couatl
Darkmantle
Delver
Demon, Babau
Demon, Balor
Demon, Bebilith
Demon, Dretch
Demon, Glabrezu
Demon, Hezrou
Demon, Marilith
Demon, Nalfeshnee
Demon, Quasit
Demon, Retriever
Demon, Succubus
Demon, Vrock
Derro
Destrachan
Devil, Barbed Hamatula
Devil, Bearded Barbazu
Devil, Bone Osyluth
Devil, Chain Kyton
Devil, Erinyes
Devil, Hellcat Bezekira
Devil, Horned Cornugon
Devil, Ice Gelugon
Devil, Imp
Devil, Lemure
Devil, Pit Fiend
Devourer
Digester
Dinosaur, Deinonychus
Dinosaur, Elasmosaurus
Dinosaur, Megaraptor
Dinosaur, Triceratops
Dinosaur, Tyrannosaurus
Dire Ape
Dire Badger
Dire Bat
Dire Bear
Dire Boar
Dire Lion
Dire Rat
Dire Shark
Dire Tiger
Dire Weasel
Dire Wolf
Dire Wolverine
Displacer Beast
Displacer Beast Pack Lord
Doppelganger
Dragon Turtle
Dragon, Chromatic Black
Dragon, Chromatic Blue
Dragon, Chromatic Green
Dragon, Chromatic Red
Dragon, Chromatic White
Dragon, Metallic Brass
Dragon, Metallic Bronze
Dragon, Metallic Copper
Dragon, Metallic Gold
Dragon, Metallic Silver
Dragonne
Drider
Dryad
Dwarf (1st-Level Hill Dwarf Warrior)
Dwarf, Duergar (1st-level Duergar Warrior)
Dwarf Subraces: Deep, Duergar, Hill, Mountain
Eagle, Giant
Eladrin, Bralani
Eladrin, Ghaele
Elemental, Air, Elder
Elemental, Air, Greater
Elemental, Air, Huge
Elemental, Air, Large
Elemental, Air, Medium
Elemental, Air, Small
Elemental, Earth, Elder
Elemental, Earth, Greater
Elemental, Earth, Huge
Elemental, Earth, Large
Elemental, Earth, Medium
Elemental, Earth, Small
Elemental, Fire, Elder
Elemental, Fire, Greater
Elemental, Fire, Huge
Elemental, Fire, Large
Elemental, Fire, Medium
Elemental, Fire, Small
Elemental, Water, Elder
Elemental, Water, Greater
Elemental, Water, Huge
Elemental, Water, Large
Elemental, Water, Medium
Elemental, Water, Small
Elf (1st-Level High Elf Warrior)
Elf, Drow (1st-Level Drow Warrior)
Elf Subraces: Aquatic, Drow, Gray, Half-Elf, High, Wild, Wood
Ethereal Filcher
Ethereal Marauder
Ettercap
Ettin
Fiendish Creature Sample, Dire Rat
Fiendish Creature Template
Formian, Myrmarch
Formian, Queen
Formian, Taskmaster
Formian, Warrior
Formian, Worker
Frost Worm
Fungus, Shrieker
Fungus, Violet Fungus
Gargoyle
Gargoyle Subrace: Gargoyle, Kapoacinth
Genie, Djinni
Genie, Djinni Subrace: Noble Djinni
Genie, Efreeti
Genie, Janni
Ghost Sample, 5th-Level Human Fighter
Ghost Template
Ghoul
Ghoul, Ghast
Ghoul Subrace: Lacedon
Giant, Cloud Giant
Giant, Fire Giant
Giant, Frost Giant
Giant, Frost Giant Jarl (8th-Level Blackguard)
Giant, Hill Giant
Giant, Stone Giant
Giant, Storm Giant
Gibbering Mouther
Girallon
Githyanki
Githzerai
Gnoll
Gnome, (1st-Level Rock Gnome Warrior)
Gnome, Svirneblin (1st-Level Svirfneblin Warrior)
Gnome Subraces: Forest, Rock, Svirfneblin
Goblin (1st-Level Warrior)
Golem, Clay Golem
Golem, Flesh Golem
Golem, Greater Stone Golem
Golem, Iron Golem
Golem, Stone Golem
Gorgon
Gray Render
Grick
Griffon
Grimlock
Guardinal, Avoral
Guardinal, Leonal
Hag, Annis
Hag, Green Hag
Hag, Sea Hag
Half-Celestial Sample, 9th-Level Human Paladin
Half-Celestial Template
Half-Dragon Sample, 4th-Level Human Fighter
Half-Dragon Template
Half-Fiend Sample, 7th-Level Human Cleric
Half-Fiend Template
Halfling (1st-Level Lightfoot Warrior)
Halfling Subraces: Deep, Lightfoot, Tallfellow
Harpy
Harpy Archer (7th-Level Fighter)
Hell Hound
Hell Hound, Nessian Warhound
Hippogriff
Hobgoblin (1st-Level Warrior)
Homonculus
Howler
Hydra Subraces: Cryohydra, Lernean, Pyrohydra
Hydra, Eight-Headed
Hydra, Eleven-Headed
Hydra, Five-Headed
Hydra, Nine-Headed
Hydra, Seven-Headed
Hydra, Six-Headed
Hydra, Ten-Headed
Hydra, Twelve-Headed
Inevitable, Kolyarut
Inevitable, Marut
Inevitable, Zelekhut
Invisible Stalker
Kobold (1st-Level Warrior)
Kraken
Krenshar
Kuo-Toa
Lamia
Lammasu
Lammasu, Golden Protector (Celestial Half-Dragon Lammasu)
Lich Sample, 11th-Level Human Wizard
Lich Template
Lillend
Lizardfolk
Locathah
Lycanthrope Sample, Hill Giant Dire Wereboar, Dire Boar Form
Lycanthrope Sample, Hill Giant Dire Wereboar, Hill Giant Form
Lycanthrope Sample, Hill Giant Dire Wereboar, Hybrid Form
Lycanthrope Sample, Werebear, Bear Form
Lycanthrope Sample, Werebear, Human Form
Lycanthrope Sample, Werebear, Hybrid Form
Lycanthrope Sample, Wereboar, Boar Form
Lycanthrope Sample, Wereboar, Human Form
Lycanthrope Sample, Wereboar, Hybrid Form
Lycanthrope Sample, Wererat, Dire Rat Form
Lycanthrope Sample, Wererat, Human Form
Lycanthrope Sample, Wererat, Hybrid Form
Lycanthrope Sample, Weretiger, Human Form
Lycanthrope Sample, Weretiger, Hybrid Form
Lycanthrope Sample, Weretiger, Tiger Form
Lycanthrope Sample, Werewolf Lord, Dire Wolf Form
Lycanthrope Sample, Werewolf Lord, Human Form
Lycanthrope Sample, Werewolf Lord, Hybrid Form
Lycanthrope Sample, Werewolf, Human Form
Lycanthrope Sample, Werewolf, Hybrid Form
Lycanthrope Sample, Werewolf, Wolf Form
Lycanthrope Template
Lycanthrope Variants: Afflicted, Natural
Magmin
Manticore
Medusa
Mephit, Air Mephit
Mephit, Dust Mephit
Mephit, Earth Mephit
Mephit, Fire Mephit
Mephit, Ice Mephit
Mephit, Magma Mephit
Mephit, Ooze Mephit
Mephit, Salt Mephit
Mephit, Steam Mephit
Mephit, Water Mephit
Merfolk (1st-Level Warrior)
Mimic
Mind Flayer
Mind Flayer, 9th-Level Sorcerer
Minotaur
Mohrg
Mummy
Mummy Lord (10th-Level Cleric)
Naga, Dark Naga
Naga, Guardian Naga
Naga, Spirit Naga
Naga, Water Naga
Night Hag
Nightmare
Nightmare, Cauchemar
Nightshade, Nightcrawler
Nightshade, Nightwalker
Nightshade, Nightwing
Nymph
Ogre
Ogre Subraces: Merrow, Ogre
Ogre Mage
Ogre, 4th-Level Barbarian
Ooze, Black Pudding
Ooze, Elder Black Pudding
Ooze, Gelatinous Cube
Ooze, Gray Ooze
Ooze, Ochre Jelly
Orc (1st-Level Warrior)
Orc Subraces: Half-Orc, Orc
Otyugh
Owl, Giant
Owlbear
Pegasus
Phantom Fungus
Phase Spider
Phasm
Planetouched, Aasimar
Planetouched, Tiefling
Pseudodragon
Purple Worm
Rakshasa
Rast
Ravid
Remorhaz
Roc
Roper
Rust Monster
Sahuagin
Sahuagin Subraces: Four-Armed Sahuagin, Malenti, Sahuagin
Salamander, Average Salamander
Salamander, Flamebrother
Salamander, Noble Salamander
Satyr
Sea Cat
Shadow
Shadow, Greater Shadow
Shadow Mastiff
Shambling Mound
Shield Guardian
Shocker Lizard
Skeleton Sample, Advanced Megaraptor
Skeleton Sample, Chimera
Skeleton Sample, Cloud Giant
Skeleton Sample, Ettin
Skeleton Sample, Human Warrior
Skeleton Sample, Owlbear
Skeleton Sample, Troll
Skeleton Sample, Wolf
Skeleton Sample, Young Adult Red Dragon
Skeleton Template
Skum
Slaad, Blue Slaad
Slaad, Death Slaad
Slaad, Gray Slaad
Slaad, Green Slaad
Slaad, Red Slaad
Sphinx, Androsphinx
Sphinx, Criosphinx
Sphinx, Gynosphinx
Sphinx, Hieracosphinx
Spider Eater
Sprite, Grig
Sprite, Nixie
Sprite, Pixie
Stirge
Swarm, Bat Swarm
Swarm, Centipede Swarm
Swarm, Hellwasp Swarm
Swarm, Locust Swarm
Swarm, Rat Swarm
Swarm, Spider Swarm
Tarrasque
Tendriculos
Thoqqua
Titan
Tojanida, Adult
Tojanida, Elder
Tojanida, Juvenile
Treant
Triton
Troglodyte
Troll
Troll Hunter (6th-Level Ranger)
Troll Subrace: Scrag, Troll
Umber Hulk
Umber Hulk, Truly Horrid Umber Hulk
Unicorn
Unicorn, Celestial Charger (7th-Level Cleric)
Vampire Sample, 13th-Level Half-Elf Monk/Shadowdancer
Vampire Sample, 5th-Level Human Fighter
Vampire Template
Vampire Spawn
Vargouille
Vermin, Giant Ant Queen
Vermin, Giant Ant Soldier
Vermin, Giant Ant Worker
Vermin, Giant Bee
Vermin, Giant Bombardier Beetle
Vermin, Giant Fire Beetle
Vermin, Giant Praying Mantis
Vermin, Giant Stag Beetle
Vermin, Giant Wasp
Vermin, Monstrous Centipede, Colossal
Vermin, Monstrous Centipede, Gargantuan
Vermin, Monstrous Centipede, Huge
Vermin, Monstrous Centipede, Large
Vermin, Monstrous Centipede, Medium
Vermin, Monstrous Centipede, Small
Vermin, Monstrous Centipede, Tiny
Vermin, Monstrous Scorpion, Colossal
Vermin, Monstrous Scorpion, Gargantuan
Vermin, Monstrous Scorpion, Huge
Vermin, Monstrous Scorpion, Large
Vermin, Monstrous Scorpion, Medium
Vermin, Monstrous Scorpion, Small
Vermin, Monstrous Scorpion, Tiny
Vermin, Monstrous Spider, Colossal
Vermin, Monstrous Spider, Gargantuan
Vermin, Monstrous Spider, Huge
Vermin, Monstrous Spider, Large
Vermin, Monstrous Spider, Medium
Vermin, Monstrous Spider, Small
Vermin, Monstrous Spider, Tiny
Wight
Will-O'-Wisp
Winter Wolf
Worg
Wraith
Wraith, Dread Wraith
Wyvern
Xill
Xorn, Average
Xorn, Elder
Xorn, Minor
Yeth Hound
Yrthak
Yuan-Ti, Abomination
Yuan-Ti, Halfblood
Yuan-Ti, Pureblood
Zombie Sample, Bugbear
Zombie Sample, Gray Render
Zombie Sample, Human Commoner
Zombie Sample, Kobold
Zombie Sample, Minotaur
Zombie Sample, Ogre
Zombie Sample, Troglodyte
Zombie Sample, Umber Hulk
Zombie Sample, Wyvern
Zombie Template


Also out of the SRD: the Baatezu and Tanar'ri subtype. The word "learnean" is actually no more used in revised edition, but I was just wanting a name better than "standard" to define the hydras that are neither pyro- nor cryo-. And since all hydras now works like the learnean hydras worked in non-revised 3e...


http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=105299

 

[Knight Otu]

Also out of the SRD: the Baatezu and Tanar'ri subtype. The word "learnean" is actually no more used in revised edition, but I was just wanting a name better than "standard" to define the hydras that are neither pyro- nor cryo-. And since all hydras now works like the learnean hydras worked in non-revised 3e...

I very much believe the terms Eladrin and Guardinal are also not in the SRD.

 

[Gez]

Yep, indeed. Ghaele and bralani have their own entry in the SRD (they aren't grouped under Eladrin as in MM v3.5 or Celestial as in MM v3.0), and likewise for Avoral and Leonal.

However, if the subtype isn't defined in the SRD, the word itself is included in. The summon monster tables (http://www.wizards.com/d20/files/v35/SpellsS.rtf)

6th Level
Celestial polar bear LG
Celestial orca whale1 NG
Bralani (eladrin) CG
Celestial dire lion CG
Elemental, Large (any) N
Janni (genie) N
Chaos beast CN
Devil, chain LE
Xill LE
Fiendish monstrous centipede, Gargantuan NE
Fiendish rhinoceros NE
Fiendish elasmosaurus1 CE
Fiendish monstrous spider, Huge CE
Fiendish snake, giant constrictor CE
7th Level
Celestial elephant LG
Avoral (guardinal) NG
Celestial baleen whale1 NG
Djinni (genie) CG
Elemental, Huge (any) N
Invisible stalker N
Devil, bone LE
Fiendish megaraptor LE
Fiendish monstrous scorpion, Huge NE
Babau (demon) CE
Fiendish giant octopus1 CE
Fiendish girallon CE

And, contrarily to tanar'ri and baatezu, they aren't listed as Product Identity in the legal blurb of the SRD. Which is logical since they were, IIRC, in the "3.0" SRD.

 

[WizarDru]

The topic comes frequently. Where are the illithids/giths/whatever in the SRD? Nowhere, because they're considered unique to D&D, rather than generic fantasy creatures, and thus intellectual property of WotC.

So, for the sake of settling the debate once and for all, here's the list of all creatures in the Monster Manual, and in red, those that are IP and excluded from the SRD.

Aboleth
Aboleth Mage (10th-Level wizard)

I think you should qualify that not being in the SRD is not the same thing as not being Open-content. The Yuan-ti are not open content AND not in the SRD. The Aboleth is...the Aboleth Mage example is not in the SRD, but I doubt that it's not open content, so much as WotC not wanting to bother putting examples of advanced creatures in the SRD (Hence no sample Celestial Lion, Aboleth Mage, Mummy with Cleric levels, and so on). After all, they want to encourage you to purchase the 3.5 MM, and that's one way to sweeten the pot.

 

[diaglo]

wasn't there also some statement on the WotC site about not being able to kill off "name" characters without the express written consent of Hasbeen.

so does that hold true now then for the monsters too.

no more killing beholders, mind flayers, yuan-ti, etc...


or did that rule only apply to the novels?

 

[Voadam]

Yep, indeed. Ghaele and bralani have their own entry in the SRD (they aren't grouped under Eladrin as in MM v3.5 or Celestial as in MM v3.0), and likewise for Avoral and Leonal.

However, if the subtype isn't defined in the SRD, the word itself is included in. The summon monster tables (http://www.wizards.com/d20/files/v35/SpellsS.rtf)


And, contrarily to tanar'ri and baatezu, they aren't listed as Product Identity in the legal blurb of the SRD. Which is logical since they were, IIRC, in the "3.0" SRD.

The terms tanari and baatezu were not included in the 3.0 srd, just the draft one.

 

[Gez]

However, if the subtypes aren't defined in the SRD, the words themselves are included in.

And, contrarily to tanar'ri and baatezu, they [the ghaele and eladrin words] aren't listed as Product Identity in the legal blurb of the SRD. Which is logical since they were, IIRC, in the "3.0" SRD.




Just clearing this, because I knew baatezu and tanar'ri have never been in an actual SRD.

Do like me, say baateluth and tanarlith!

 

[Christian]

Do like me, say baateluth and tanarlith!

Oh, yeah, that'll pacify them WOTC lawyers.

Look... me and the McDonald's people got this little misunderstanding. See, they're McDonald's... I'm McDowell's. They got the Golden Arches, mine is the Golden Arcs. They got the Big Mac, I got the Big Mick. We both got two all-beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles and onions, but their buns have sesame seeds. My buns have no seeds.