D&D 5E Duergar and "nonstandard" races

[Mephista]

For those of you (all five of you?) who have played duergar, are they too alien to mesh well with a typical party? How have you felt about the roleplaying aspect of the duergar?

Now, I haven't played a deurgar, but as someone who's played a drow, I can tell you that sunlight sensitivity is a huge burden on the party, unless you're entirely in a sunless dungeon for most of the game. That, more than anything, causes friction. Lore Bards, rogues that stick to shadows and darkness+devil's sight warlocks all have potential ways around it, but I'm hard pressed to see grey dwarves doing that.

In my experience, most adventurers don't look twice at your race - once you have a few life or death encounters and learn some level of trust, they're fine. Its more of a question of NPCs who recognize your race. Ask your player group if that's the kind of game they want to play. Sometimes, there will be some adventurers that take hard line philosophies against evil characters, so you'll have to decide. Or just start the game with a disguise kit; that really takes care of almost all problems based on appearance. Group dynamics depends on individuals in groups, but most people, I find, are cool with non-jerk evil* characters.

* There's playable evil, where you're just selfish and power hungry, but reasonable about it, and then there's being cartoon evil where you backstab the group. Remember that this is a group game, and unless your party is cool with a potential betrayer (most aren't, even if they say it), you should definitely be a team player no matter your philosophy on life.

 

[Warpiglet]

Another thing you should consider:
How, as a Duergar, will you be seen by others? Be they PC or NPC. Especially other types of Dwarves.
Do they realize the lire/reputation of the Duergar? Because, regardless of what your alignment is, like the Drow there's good reasons this race is known to be evil....
Or us this just going to handwaved away & you'll just be playing a set of stat mods etc?

Good question. In the ancient days of 1e, we had an evil party who were fugitives always running and fighting and struggling to resupply since we had a drow with us!

In the current case, I am guessing we would have people look upon a duergar as alien and as weird as a human from another fantasy continent without fear of automatic hostility and attack!

I would guess around dwarves, there would be absolute distrust. However, I am guessing that even in civilized lands the typical human would have little or no knowledge of duergar at all and would treat them like any other outsider...maybe staring a bit too much....

I am not looking for stat mods per se. Frankly, I think there are more powerful options. Heck, even a mountain dwarf is better in many cases considering sunlight issues! So really I am after some variety in abilities and most importantly for something different to imagine (I like the image of a duergar in say studded leather and black hood).

I guess I would need to have a conversation with the DM however. I do not like the immediate and predictable "Its a drow!" reaction simply because it gets repetitive and boring and takes away (I think) from the story other want to be in.

So unless it is a little more lax than this...I would be better off doing something else.

Can't help it though...like the visual of a duergar hexblade!

 

[MechaTarrasque]

Even if the DM was going to make everyone attack the duergar on sight, there should still be some options for hiding--you may have to fake being blind or be a dwarf that suffered burns after encountering a fire elemental. The warlock seems like a particularly good class for something like that.

The duergar's interaction with the hexblade could contain some interesting reasons for one to be on the surface as a member of the party: the blade could be trying to make the duergar "good" or maybe the duergar is paying off a debt to the weapon (my clan was saved from the drow using this sword, and the price was to return it to a temple, and we don't know where it is). Dealing with someone forced to join the group by a demanding weapon should make even the most stringent paladin have a little mercy.

 

[Cyrinishad]

...have people look upon a duergar as alien and as weird as a human from another fantasy continent without fear of automatic hostility and attack...

...the typical human would have little or no knowledge of duergar at all and would treat them like any other outsider...

...have a conversation with the DM...

...the immediate and predictable "Its a drow!" reaction (is) repetitive and boring and takes away from the story...

I pulled out a couple pieces of Warpiglet's post that are crucial for every character concept... As a DM, I really don't like saying "No" to character ideas. So, this is how I've always approached character concepts in the Realms, because simply by looking at the amazing diversity contained within all the cultures of the Human Race on Earth (which is contained within a game mechanic of +1 to ability scores)... It would be intuitive to me that by adding the exponential diversity of all of the Fantasy Races of the Realms alongside the diversity of humanity, it would make the populations of a large metropolis like Waterdeep be very tolerant of a wide variety of unusual/unique individuals in their daily lives...

 

[MechaTarrasque]

I pulled out a couple pieces of Warpiglet's post that are crucial for every character concept... As a DM, I really don't like saying "No" to character ideas. So, this is how I've always approached character concepts in the Realms, because simply by looking at the amazing diversity contained within all the cultures of the Human Race on Earth (which is contained within a game mechanic of +1 to ability scores)... It would be intuitive to me that by adding the exponential diversity of all of the Fantasy Races of the Realms alongside the diversity of humanity, it would make the populations of a large metropolis like Waterdeep be very tolerant of a wide variety of unusual/unique individuals in their daily lives...

Or much like the real world, diversity makes people more protective of their "niche." Or to be more specific, the duergar wouldn't be bothered (much) in the "common areas" of the city (central retail section of town, the red light district, the theater section, or by the docks [as long as he/she wasn't on bad terms with whatever guild runs things in that area]), but show up in the Elves quarter (or especially the Dwarves quarter) and the duergar will be lucky to escape with his/her life. Of course, how often is an adventure party going to be running around a residential part of town (except for the rich residential part where the murderhobos are trying to steal something)?

 

[Cyrinishad]

Or much like the real world, diversity makes people more protective of their "niche." Or to be more specific, the duergar wouldn't be bothered (much) in the "common areas" of the city (central retail section of town, the red light district, the theater section, or by the docks [as long as he/she wasn't on bad terms with whatever guild runs things in that area]), but show up in the Elves quarter (or especially the Dwarves quarter) and the duergar will be lucky to escape with his/her life. Of course, how often is an adventure party going to be running around a residential part of town (except for the rich residential part where the murderhobos are trying to steal something)?

That has not generally been my experience in the real world, but everyone has different life experiences... and I imagine Waterdeep functioning a bit like fantasy-version of New York City, so plenty of trouble to be found for the fool-hardy, much less of a murderous mob mentality from the Elves & Dwarves, and unusual looking humanoids aren't generally given a second glance... A bald dwarf with a skin condition isn't going to be drawing peoples attentions in a big city with "Standard" races like Dragonborn, Tieflings, and Half-Orcs.

On the other hand, I can definitely see an "anti-diversity" mentality coming from Elves, Dwarves, or Humans, in places like Hillsfar, the Dwarven Holds, or the Elven Mythals...

 

[Uchawi]

It is really a DM question and not a player's. I could take any race as a DM and make it interesting and compelling. I am not bound by evil always has to be evil, or vice versa with good. The character concept drives it, and it is pretty easy to tell when someone chooses a race based solely on mechanical advantage versus flavor. But even then, you would have to push it to the limit to be denied. it is a cooperative game overall, so both DM and player can works towards to mutual agreement on what is allowed.

 

[Sunseeker]

Evil races comprehend good. They are typically evil thanks to society, culture and tradition placing value on "evil deeds" and usually the worship of some evil deities. Maybe some innate taint but fundamentally, one cannot be "evil" if they cannot comprehend "good" and choose not to be good.

Lawful Evil is arguably my favorite alignment after Chaotic Good. Being evil doesn't necessarily make you a murderer, a psychopath or generally a bad person to be around. It just generally means you place a higher value on your life than your friends, your goals over their goals, your needs over their needs and see to it that your needs are always the primary obligation in any adventure. That doesn't mean you place no value on your friends, or that you have no friends. Your comrades are simply tools to your own success, if your success mandates that they succeed, then you will take reasonable measures to ensure they succeed, because a stronger ally means you are more likely to achieve your goals. If your tools get in your way, hinder your advancement, then they will be cast aside.

But Neutral Evil and Lawful Evil are perfectly compatible with the average adventuring party.

None of the humanoid races in D&D are so alien as to be incompatible with a campaign. They're mostly just extremes of IRL human society and culture.

 

[den4quest]

Just got done playing our dynamic duo of Adrigar, a duergar 6th level fighter/cleric and Shaemus, dwarven 8th level fighter. The point of the story where the duergar (who is lawful neutral in alignment, not evil) joins a full party of dwarves who are passing through a dwarven town that borders the underdark, took place a few years ago. The duergar was imprisoned on sight and was going to be tried and exectuted by the next day. However, the highest ranking dwarven priest in the party took a special interest in the opportunity presented by this non-evil duergar. Knowing the duergar came out of the part of the underdark which the dwarves had to travel next, the priest pulled rank on the local cleric who was presiding over the duergar case. Taking responsibility for the duergar after having a good long enlightening discussion with the grey dwarf about his unique outlook on dwarven religion, he realized what an asset the duergar could be. Also, this particular high priest of Moradin who had never been fully in touch with Moradin (he had been sleeping for decades). Adrigar, the grey dwarf had a firm belief that any dwarf (gold, grey, shield) could be accepted by any dwarven diety so long as you perform and sincerely worshiped said diety. He had proven it himself by learning the prayers of the core pantheon himself by studying on his own. The dwarves, prior to meeting the duergar cleric, were trying to get back to the capital city of the dwarves to report their findings that the nearby duergar nation (were actively trying to force their dwarven clan to move, abandoning their silver and iron mines to the duergar nation forever!). Being one of three dwarven high priests in his area he had a feeling that one or both of his own peers had cut an under the table deal to bring down their own nation if they could profit from the plunder, with the duergar. Remember one of the biggest flaws in dwarven kind is their lust for wealth....all dwarves grey or not. So, enemy of the enemy is my friend kind of thing...works out. The high priest of Moradin tries to retry the duergar nation for the crimes commited to his people. Now convinced because of the response of the highest dwarven priest in the realm that the idea to sabotage his home was a terrible one contrived by the 2 other greedy, disillusioned dwarven high priests along with the duergar. High crimes these were because innocent dwarves had died in the flooding, cave-ins and plague which were orchestrated by the duergar to drive the dwarves away. Through the next few years the party got whitled down to just the 2 characters mentioned in the opening sentence. A year ago, on a simple retrieval from the underdark job, to bring back the body of a famous hero that died in this part of the underdark recently. They find the body and liberate it from a troglodyte tribe only to get hit by an earthquake that blocks their only way back to the surface. When Adrigar was first allowed to travel with the dwarves, Shaemus was the biggest hater in the party. You will be suprised at how quickly and tightly 2 people that hate each other can bond and even become friends when trapped hundreds of miles from home in a strange part of the underdark. Today they finally made it out to the surface. Both of them know they could not have done it without the other. Sometimes the duergar saved the dwarf (like when having to bluff their way past his own evil relatives) and now it is the Shaemus's turn to return the favor by returning Adrigar back to the underdark. (The place where they fought their way to the surface ended up being in an old dwarven stronghold that was being overrun by orcs and the cave they exited had to be collapsed to block the horde from slaughtering them and the other dwarves.)

 

[Eltab]

Play your particular Evil character as the type who does not question the edicts of authority, and who looks out for Number One when it comes to the crunch.
He doesn't have to be crazy or a threat to everybody else he meets, he just has to be a survivor.