Dumb Things PCs Do That Change the World

[Rune]

So, we all know PCs do dumb things. It's just part of the job. They wouldn't be adventurers if they weren't reckless, impulsive, and irresponsible.

My question is, how many of you have stories of PCs messing things up so badly that the whole world paid for it?

I'll start:

In one game, the PCs came across some twig-like people, about a foot tall, dancing in a circle around a snow-golem.

Figuring (correctly) that the creatures were animating the golem, they immediately attacked, even going so far as to stuff the twig-people in a sack and stomp on it.

Turns out later that the twig-people had been performing a ceremony crucial to the change of season from autumn to winter. So winter didn't happen and the weather cycle got ALL screwed up, eventually resulting in sustained rains and a corresponding flood.

Fixing THAT particular problem was quite a quest in and of itself.

 

[Deuce Traveler]

I wonder how many DMs have made follow-on adventures from power vacuum's generated after the PCs destroy an evil lord and his minions and then walk away into the sunset. It's not a boneheaded or dumb thing to do, but there could potentially be repercussions to actions that make them regret their involvement in the first place.

In the above scenario I would ask whether or not the PCs had any indications that the twig-folk were not aiding a harmful cause? If the PCs perceived a threat and then acted upon the knowledge that they had, how can they be faulted for not having information that would have made them act in a different manner?

 

[Janx]

In the above scenario I would ask whether or not the PCs had any indications that the twig-folk were not aiding a harmful cause? If the PCs perceived a threat and then acted upon the knowledge that they had, how can they be faulted for not having information that would have made them act in a different manner?

I hate to dump on Rune, but this is an example of a potential GMing mistake.

If the world's physics truly relied on this crucial ceremony, it should have been better protected if it was a secret (how can a random bunch of PCs just run across this and destroy it so easily. A wandering bear or other random event could do the same thing).

If it wasn't a secret, the GM mistake was that this ritual should have been in the common lore known to denizens of the realm that "the twig people have to dance, to summon the Snow Bringer, lest we not cross into the next season." It's OK if you didn't document it, but when encountered, the GM should have said, "this reminds you of the legend your gran used to tell, of how the seasons would be changed..."

 

[Rune]

I wonder how many DMs have made follow-on adventures from power vacuum's generated after the PCs destroy an evil lord and his minions and then walk away into the sunset. It's not a boneheaded or dumb thing to do, but there could potentially be repercussions to actions that make them regret their involvement in the first place.

Rat Bastardry 101.

In the above scenario I would ask whether or not the PCs had any indications that the twig-folk were not aiding a harmful cause? If the PCs perceived a threat and then acted upon the knowledge that they had, how can they be faulted for not having information that would have made them act in a different manner?

They had no indication one way or the other. My players know I run games in which it isn't okay to attack things without finding out what's going on. They just went for it, anyway. Maybe it's because I had made a creepy snowman-with-tentacles mini out of sculpy.

I hate to dump on Rune, but this is an example of a potential GMing mistake.

Nonsense.

If the world's physics truly relied on this crucial ceremony, it should have been better protected if it was a secret (how can a random bunch of PCs just run across this and destroy it so easily. A wandering bear or other random event could do the same thing). Maybe it was because I made creepy snow

Oh, they weren't unprotected. The snow-golem put up a hell of a fight. They still remember it something like a decade later.

If it wasn't a secret, the GM mistake was that this ritual should have been in the common lore known to denizens of the realm that "the twig people have to dance, to summon the Snow Bringer, lest we not cross into the next season." It's OK if you didn't document it, but when encountered, the GM should have said, "this reminds you of the legend your gran used to tell, of how the seasons would be changed..."

Or, option c: it was neither a secret, nor was it common knowledge. In the absence of information, the onus is upon the players to seek it out.

They didn't bother. And, months later, when consequences began to present, they knew why and they didn't think it was my fault for not warning them. It was not, as you say, a GMing mistake. It was just a campaign-defining impulsive decision on their part which led to months of adventure and fun. (And, indirectly, one PC's death in the flooded Temple of WORM. Wraiths with rogue levels are nasty underwater. But that's another story.)

 

[Celebrim]

Oh, they weren't unprotected. The snow-golem put up a hell of a fight.

Compared to a balor, planatar, or similar stature being?

I'm sympathetic to both sides of this. On the one hand, it's interesting that the game contains mythic features and the PC's have an opportunity to influence those mythic features. I rather like this style of campaign myself. Gods show up from day 1. Mighty spirits engage in elaborate plots. The world is full of magic. All well and good.

On the other hand, if there exists in the world beings much mightier than the PC's, whether mightier wizards and warriors, or mighty druids, or mighty spirits, or fiends, or angels or gods, why have none of these availed themselves of either the opportunity to wreck havoc on the seasons or else the responsibility to protect them? No 15th level Druid decided to retire with the explicit purpose of guarding this sacred rite? If there are gods of nature, surely there is hardly anything more important to their duties than regulating the seasons. If that means that the twig people have to dance around the snow man, that means you either show up personally to see that it happens or else you send your finest agents in your stead. Sure, maybe they can still get crushed by 15th or 20th level PC's acting in ignorance, but guys that are still having trouble with bandits and ogres probably shouldn't be monkeying with the seasons except on a world where there is nothing more powerful than a bandit or an ogre.

The problem with your story is that it seems to me that it strays into Nitro Ferguson territory of The Knights of the Dinner Table fame. Now, on one hand Nitro is a fabulous creative DM with all sorts interesting evocative world building. A campaign world were the gods are all giants of early 20th century art and cinema is an amazingly cool design that does all sorts of things to reference the player's existing mythic knowledge. And he's perfectly willing to let his players run into all sorts of fantastic things - including the elder gods. The problem with Nitro is that he GMs almost entirely to play 'gotcha' with his players. Besides having a 'sadistic and its good for you' streak that might otherwise be just a foible that would make him a RBDM, he is confused regarding what fun exploratory play is like. He wants to awe the players with the creativity of his world but he does that by continually putting them in circumstances where they the players don't know things that the player characters either might or really should no, and putting the onus on the player to fill in all the gaps that they have in their information.

There are of course situations where that is totally appropriate. There can be great campaign level secrets that even the lore wise don't know. There can be mysteries to be resolved. But it probably shouldn't happen with things that are part of the overall scope of the setting. If elves are vicious cannibals on your world, if when the players encounter them, they should be told that. They PC's certainly shouldn't have a harder time recognizing elves than modern persons would have recognizing a vampire. It's strange how many DMs seem to assume that the PC's should now less about real hazards and dangers of their world, than real people know about things that don't exist.

 

[Rune]

How the hell did a thread intended as a repository of fun gaming stories instantly turn into a critique of my DMing style? Has EN World really become this cynical?

Compared to a balor, planatar, or similar stature being?

I'm sympathetic to both sides of this. On the one hand, it's interesting that the game contains mythic features and the PC's have an opportunity to influence those mythic features. I rather like this style of campaign myself. Gods show up from day 1. Mighty spirits engage in elaborate plots. The world is full of magic. All well and good.

On the other hand, if there exists in the world beings much mightier than the PC's, whether mightier wizards and warriors, or mighty druids, or mighty spirits, or fiends, or angels or gods, why have none of these availed themselves of either the opportunity to wreck havoc on the seasons or else the responsibility to protect them? No 15th level Druid decided to retire with the explicit purpose of guarding this sacred rite? If there are gods of nature, surely there is hardly anything more important to their duties than regulating the seasons. If that means that the twig people have to dance around the snow man, that means you either show up personally to see that it happens or else you send your finest agents in your stead. Sure, maybe they can still get crushed by 15th or 20th level PC's acting in ignorance, but guys that are still having trouble with bandits and ogres probably shouldn't be monkeying with the seasons except on a world where there is nothing more powerful than a bandit or an ogre.

The problem with your story is that it seems to me that it strays into Nitro Ferguson territory of The Knights of the Dinner Table fame. Now, on one hand Nitro is a fabulous creative DM with all sorts interesting evocative world building. A campaign world were the gods are all giants of early 20th century art and cinema is an amazingly cool design that does all sorts of things to reference the player's existing mythic knowledge. And he's perfectly willing to let his players run into all sorts of fantastic things - including the elder gods. The problem with Nitro is that he GMs almost entirely to play 'gotcha' with his players. Besides having a 'sadistic and its good for you' streak that might otherwise be just a foible that would make him a RBDM, he is confused regarding what fun exploratory play is like. He wants to awe the players with the creativity of his world but he does that by continually putting them in circumstances where they the players don't know things that the player characters either might or really should no, and putting the onus on the player to fill in all the gaps that they have in their information.

There are of course situations where that is totally appropriate. There can be great campaign level secrets that even the lore wise don't know. There can be mysteries to be resolved. But it probably shouldn't happen with things that are part of the overall scope of the setting. If elves are vicious cannibals on your world, if when the players encounter them, they should be told that. They PC's certainly shouldn't have a harder time recognizing elves than modern persons would have recognizing a vampire. It's strange how many DMs seem to assume that the PC's should now less about real hazards and dangers of their world, than real people know about things that don't exist.

You've made a lot of inaccurate assumptions about my game. High fantasy does not equate to high power. Gods do not necessarily walk the world (especially if their very existence is in question). Verisimilitude can be (and was) maintained, even with such fantastic elements in play. It does not have to destroy a sense of mystery and the wonder of discovery in order to do it.

Above all, I do not run a "gotcha" game. I am a card-carrying member of the Rat Bastard DMs' Club (since 2002), but rat bastardry does not equate to dickery. Many an application has been turned down on that basis.

Believe me, if my players feel I've made un unfair call or situation, they let me know. It doesn't happen often, because I take pains to be fair. This was not a situation they thought unfair.

Now, would anyone actually like to share a story?

 

[Celebrim]

How the hell did a thread intended as a repository of fun gaming stories instantly turn into a critique of my DMing style? Has EN World really become this cynical?

This sort of thing happens all the time, and not just on EnWorld. There is even a meme for that: "Cool story, bro."

Lots of people come to share stories, only to find that what other people hear isn't what they expected them to hear.

To begin with, I have no stories of times the PC's screwed up so big that the whole world suffered. I've been playing for 30 years, but in general I've tended to avoid 'save the world' stories until this most recent campaign. Partly that's because I've deliberately avoided 'save the world' tropes because they tend to be the anti-thesis of open world play. Partly that's because I feel its an overdone trope, that tends to steam roll all sorts of imaginative play. If the PC's have to save the world, it really doesn't matter what else their priorities are - all that will have to wait. And partly it's because I feel that if the world was so easy to screw up that the PC's could do it, it would be far more screwed up already.

My current players though asked for a railroad/AP campaign, and so I'm taking advantage of the opportunity. And while the PC's have screwed up in the current campaign, sometimes without realizing it, for the most part they've 'won' on the big jobs and the consequences of screwing up have largely been dead PC's and sometimes a few dozen dead innocents. They saved Campanasalus and rescued the missing children. Amalteen didn't burn in dark fire when Tarkus accidently let it loose because Tarkus never got it. Talernga didn't collapse in civil war, and the elven community there wasn't destroyed when Keeropus engine misfired on Midsummer's Day, because Keeropus fled the city before attempting that test. That isn't to say that they didn't have mistakes, but so far they aren't big ones. Even if I did have such stories, I'm not convinced anyone would be interested in them.

The closest I can come is the PC's were in the Greater Catacombs of Amalteen, beyond the necromantic warning rune marked with 6 bars that indicated that beyond this rune were hazards capable of destroying the world. When they'd first come back from that, the local temples had been very careful to go over them with a fine tooth comb for curses and taints of various sorts, and then impounded any treasure they considered cursed unless the PC's paid a fee to have it cleansed. However, in the crisis that eventually developed, they came back for the last time before the entrances were sealed without being halted by the guards or representatives of the white council. As such, they came back with 1000 cursed silver pieces, which they deposited with their factor with the instructions (I quote): "Invest in something shady, but not too shady". Their factor then bought shares in a privateer that was about to be launched, and as a result the 1000 cursed silver pieces entered the general market. That was about a month ago. The result of that is going to nearly destroy a small city over the next few days, and they don't know, won't be able to find out, and I'm not sure that they'll discover their role in the event or even ever hear about it before campaign end.

You've made a lot of inaccurate assumptions about my game. High fantasy does not equate to high power. Gods do not necessarily walk the world (especially if their very existence is in question).

At the least, your little twig people and snow golem are gods. They may be 'small gods', akin to but mightier than dryads, nymphs or lares, but gods they most certainly are. They just happen to be gods that you can stuff in a bag and stomp on. That's not necessarily all bad. It's not unusual for in fairy tales such mighty figures as Death or Satan to succumb to magic items and the trickery of some hero, and these figures are not mightier than that. But I'm guessing from the story that the PC's were somewhat early in their careers and faced far mightier beings than these small gods of winter.

I still don't understand how such fragile yet important figures weren't guarded by something, if only an old elf lore master that at least waved his arms and said, "Put away your arms, for you are standing on sacred ground! If ye be any sort of friend of the free peoples, you'll do nothing to interfere with the sacred ceremony of winter, lest the whole world fall into imbalance and people die by the thousands or millions! Famine, flood and disaster will befall any that breaks the peace of this ceremony!"

I'm not saying that you made a particularly unfair call, and I'm glad everyone sounds fun - at the least, it sounds creative. But it still strikes me as being right on the line, and I'm sympathetic to Rune going, "Cool story bro, but I hope noob DM's reading this are very careful with this sort of thing."

 

[Janx]

I still don't understand how such fragile yet important figures weren't guarded by something, if only an old elf lore master that at least waved his arms and said, "Put away your arms, for you are standing on sacred ground! If ye be any sort of friend of the free peoples, you'll do nothing to interfere with the sacred ceremony of winter, lest the whole world fall into imbalance and people die by the thousands or millions! Famine, flood and disaster will befall any that breaks the peace of this ceremony!"

I'm not saying that you made a particularly unfair call, and I'm glad everyone sounds fun - at the least, it sounds creative. But it still strikes me as being right on the line, and I'm sympathetic to Rune going, "Cool story bro, but I hope noob DM's reading this are very careful with this sort of thing."

And that was why I said it was a "potential DMing mistake". Note the keyword potential. Which Rune did not.

If this ritual was so critical, a perimeter would have been established and wandering murderhobos and bears would be blocked as best can be. the golem being assembled in the ritual does not count as defense for the ritual because it may not be ready in time before an interruption happens.

this effectively is a player trap as it was designed to look hostile and minimal information was available. Which you could call rat bastard GMing, but on the face of it, outside of the context of Rune's actual game and group playstyle a decade ago, is some potential mistakes for a rookie GM to make if he copies it.

The fact that this happened a decade ago, and Rune hasn't gained perspective to see other ways of looking at that encounter design now.

Does it mean Rune's original game session was bad? No. they had fun.

Does it mean that the rudiments of the event as shared might have some problems if ran as written? I think so.

Cool Story, bro.

In this case, the story was less about PCs doing a dumb thing, and more about an encounter could have been setup differently given the importance of the ritual.

 

[The Grassy Gnoll]

Sometimes I think Forums should be renamed Againstums.

BadWrongFun
Level 0 Cantrip
Cast at will, once per turn. Subject suffers 1d6 chiding damage.

 

[Mark CMG]

Not long back, I blogged about an incident where the PCs were warned that taking a cursed artifact sword would turn their world upside down, and they took it anyway.

http://www.creativemountaingames.com/2014/12/the-friday-grab-bag-cursed-sword.html