Dungeon 185 - Bark at the Moon: Dungeons biggest adventure

I think that Aegeri and I are in a similar boat: we'd like to give our money to WotC if only they would do a minimal amount of work to get it...

Seriously, every adventure ever published in Dungeon has had maps. Until very recently (the advent of tiles) almost every one of those maps was good or better...

I, too, would really like to be a subscriber to Dungeon again. I've been a subscriber for most of the magazine's existence. But they've got provide me with something that sparks my interest. For better or for worse, good maps are often among the main hooks that draw me into an adventure. And when I see nothing Dungeon Tile maps, my eyes tend to glaze over.

On the one hand, I am somewhat encouraged by the descriptions of this adventure and of White Fields. If WOTC continues to produce interesting-sounding DDI adventures on a monthly basis, I might re-up in a couple months to see if it's worth the money again.

On the other hand, Dungeon Tile maps which I could throw together myself in Photoshop in 5 minutes aren't likely to help their case.
 

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I have not looked at the adventure yet....but on the topic of maps, I prefer maps that are great and inspiring cartography, but I rarely actually follow the maps much anyway.

The only map I really feel should be in every adventure is an overall map of the whole "dungeon", so that I can alter the flow, or let the PCs alter the flow.

As Herschel can attest, I use a wide assortment of 3D and 2D maps, and my maps rarely match what is in an adventure.
 


Personally with 4e, since everything works together in a synrgistic fashion- I'm more likely to snag an encounter that interests me then a map.
 

Creating maps for people who don't intend to use the product, or in ways that would detract from the larger goal should be a tertiary concern at best.

Except that these maps are a large part of why I don't want to use the product. This is one factor is a spread of factors that is pushing me strongly into the "not renewing in February" corner. I am amazed that so many people find good maps to be an optional piece of a good adventure- to each their own, but to me, a good map is important.

Like I said, it's a matter of notable inferiority to what we used to get.
 



I am amazed that so many people find good maps to be an optional piece of a good adventure- to each their own, but to me, a good map is important.

Like I said, it's a matter of notable inferiority to what we used to get.

Look- I don't care if you like or dislike dungeon tiles in adventures that's your opinion... but it's not a mark of inferior quality because it's not your preferred method of mapping.

If you happen to enjoy Dungeon Tiles, and like the fact that they're supported by the adventures-Then it's superior quality.

In my opinion pretty maps are awesome- but in no way necessary to play the adventure.

Hell most of my maps are just crudely scrawed pencil on graph paper.

I guess equally amazed that this is really that big of an issue.

But with all that said and done- to each his own man...
 

The problem with dungeon tile maps is that WotC hasn't figured out how to do outdoor maps with dungeon tiles. Inside a dungeon, the tiles work pretty well. Dungeons are rooms connected by corridors, so thin narrow tiles can connect the bigger tiles for form a dungeon with the black "table space" serving as walls.

Well, the problem with outdoor spaces is that (1) there normally aren't walls, so the table isn't helping expand the total area with blank space and (2) the areas should be bigger than a dungeon. That means the designers need to use more tiles to create the same sized map (because they aren't getting help from the table) and they need a bigger map. Unless the designers assume that players buy wilderness tiles by the case, you get bizarre small, cramped and uninteresting maps for the encounter.

Really, outdoor tiles should all come with a double-sided poster that shows different sides of mostly featureless terrain that matches the tiles (fields and forests, sandy and rocky desert, cavern and carved stone). That way we can create interesting and large terrain by putting the tile features we want down without having to organize a zillion semi-featureless terrain tiles of various sizes and shapes.

-KS
 

Look- I don't care if you like or dislike dungeon tiles in adventures that's your opinion... but it's not a mark of inferior quality because it's not your preferred method of mapping.

Fair enough, and I really should have specified that it is inferior for my purposes. I try to be pretty careful about that, and you are absolutely correct that there are people for whom tile-built maps are superior.

That said, I suspect that even many people that prefer the maps to be constructed from tiles would agree that a good non-tile map is prettier/more aesthetic. And I really think there is a qualitative difference because it is specifically made for the adventure, instead of being stock footage (if you know what I mean). I think a good map custom made for the adventure can really help tell the adventure's story. Again, if you're familiar with the Gates of Firestorm Peak, take a look at the poster map that shows the dungeon.
As you get deeper into it towards the Far Realmsy stuff, the map gets increasingly twisted, weird and creepy.
Likewise, the maps in the original Keep on the Borderlands tell a tale- you can see how overpopulated the Caves of Chaos must be. Or the map of the castle in L1, where you can see a great deal of the place's history in the fireball scars and ruined siege equipment, or similarly in Red Hand of Doom where you get clues about possible allies from the layout and elements of the map.

I do recognize the utility value of the tile-built maps for those that prefer to use tiles, and I also fully recognize that the utility may far outweigh aesthetic considerations for some people. Again, it's just a matter of taste.
 

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