Dungeon #99 - Is the end near?

[Kaodi]

Dungeon/Polyhedron

Not really sure how I should go about this if I want to preserve my skin, and what little reputation I may enjoy.

I think that you might be able to safely put me into the pile marked "shallow" or at least "middle-ground". I really enjoy the more aesthetic side of the magazine, and some issues I have bought just for this reason (the Harrowing, my first 3e Dungeon was one of these, but I really lucked out that it was great on contect too).
I might (and probably am) be blowing smoke here, but it seems that the problem with Dungeon/Polyhedron is that it is *WARNING: Analogy Alert!* something like the couple in a movie that wants to get a divorce. Both people/magazines want something different, and they are stuck living under a single roof/publication. I *think* that what we need is to do something like really make the two magazines into a single couple. So here is what I think. Scrap the whole Dungeon/Polyhedron name, and just go with Dungeon. Have 2 solid adventures and possibly a side-trek or similiar feature per issue. Instead of having a mini-setting in every issue, make it into a Campaign Path type thing (lame name I know, but we all recognize the idea), in which you have a build up of 2-3 issues detailing a setting, and then for the finale you replace the setting material with an adventure for that setting.
Suddenly I am willing to admit to myself that I am pandering pretty much totally to the Dungeon side of this argument, but since the mini-setting is like half of Polyhedron, is anything else really all that more important?
Anyway, scrap the cartoons, and I could care less about most of the other Poly stuff, though if the features were to pop up once in a while, rather than every issue, it might not be so bad.
As I was saying before, I certainly have a shallow side when it comes to the glamour side of the magazine... *but* while I could live with going back to black and white, the artwork would need to be just as good as it is now. Lots of definition. As for the glossy paper... unless it makes some sort of difference as to how good the artwork is, I could live without it, *sniff*. I do think the artwork would have to be consistently top notch though for the appeal to still hold.
Anyway, please don't hate me because I am stupid (well, inarticulate and inobservant anyway, hehehe... ).

-Kaodi

 

[buzz]

Thumbs up for Dungeon

For the record, I'd like to state that I thnk Dungeon/Polyhedron is totally worth it, and that Hijinx was one of the most creative and enjoyable-to-read minigames I've seen in Poly for a long time. As a musician who used to play clubs pretty regularly, they nailed a lot of aspects of being in a band... not to mention being in an animated cartoon.

(Honestly, I'm probably one of the few people who looks forward to the Poly side more than the Dungeon side.)

 

[Alzrius]

I just wanted to chime in to say that I'm completely happy with the direction the magazines have taken. I like getting them monthly, and I think the new Adventure Path series is great. Polyhedron is better than ever, since I still remember back when it was full of RPGA material, and now it has really inspired mini-games.

I think Paizo has done a really good job, and they deserve praise for making sure the magazines stay with us. I'm a subscriber, and I plan to remain one indefinately. I have no complaints, and no suggestions, because to me, things are going quite well, and thats enough for me.

 

[Agamon]

I really see little reason for the color/glossy pages. Obviously ads will be less important if the color and quality paper is done away with. (not to say there should be no ads, but less ads for a less-expensive to make product is okay).

I liked Poly when it was an RPGA mouthpiece/Dragon's little brother. I don't have much use for it anymore. d20 mini-games might have their place, but it's not in Dungeon. Plus, with Hijinx, we can see the idea barrel runing low, so changing course on the Poly side is about due.

So, what I'd like to see done is: keep it monthly, get rid of the color/glossy pages, keep Poly, but turn it into what it was in #100; RPGA stuff and material relevant to the Dungeon side, and make the price whatever is needed to keep it afloat. If it provides a couple adventures per month plus the side treks, crit threats, and maps of mystery, people will buy it. In other words, take the magazine back from aestheitically pleasing to utilitarian. I cherish my old 1E/2E Dungeons, they're the best part of my gaming collection.

 

[TeaBee]

I haven't read this whole thread, I just saw that it has a bunch of people bashing Dungeon/Poly, and felt like posting.

I've been a subscriber to Dungeon (and then Poly) and Dragon since about 6 months or so into 3rd edition. I plan to renew both subscriptions when they run out.

Dungeon: I like the new circle thingies that say Forgotten Realms/Any Setting, Mid Level/Low Level, Dungeon/Wilderness. I like the Critical Threats and the new Agents & Allies features as well. I love the counters.

Poly: I love all the mini-games. I love the Living Greyhawk Journal. I love the Star Wars content. I liked seeing Call of Cthulu content. I hate not having the flip Poly cover, as a subscriber (If I had to choose one, I'd want the Poly Cover). I hate that the mini-games never have character sheets, when they ALWAYS should.

Dragon: I don't like that I can't think of any parts of a Dragon issue I look forward to (past ones were Class Acts and LGJ). I like setting specific articles like the recent Cormyr prestige classes (if they have a Greyhawk, Forgotten Realms or other specific setting slant, I find an article much more useful than a genric one. Generic is what I can get from other d20 companies, and often do). I like that some issues have had counters, though I prefer the cardboard pullouts of Dungeon to them being on a normal page or a poster.

Miscelanious: I don't like that my last issues of Dragon and Dungeon/Poly came to me very damaged (not anything to do with Paizo, I guess) and had to be replaced. I don't like that there aren't message boards on the Paizo website. I like the web enhancements (though I'd like to see more Poly ones).

Personally, if I was going to cancel one of the three mags, it would be Dragon. I mean, a year from now what good are those 3.5 preview articles? One thing I could think of adding that would interest me is fiction that includes relevant "crunchy bits" at the end, like Star Wars Gamer did. Just some NPC stats would greatly increase the usefulness of the fiction to me. Also, fiction set in WotC properties would be prefered (Forgotten Realms, Greyhwak, Ravenloft, DragonLance, etc.). What else would I do to make me enjoy Dragon? I don't know, and I guess it dosen't matter because it sells well.

My biggest complaint about Polyhedron is that I can't get enough of it. I wish there was LGJ and SW in each issue.

I absolutely love Poly. That's why I don't post much on the subject. Content people don't feel the need to tell others how content they are. I want Paizo to know that these are coments from someone who supports them by subscribing, not someone who used to buy issues off the news stands.

I think there's more people out there who like Poly, like me, they just aren't as vocal as the "rip-Poly-out-and-burn-it" people.

As a whole, Dungeon has only gotten better. The Poly "half" is great, and the Dungeon side has only improved with things like Critical Threats. What a great magazine!

 

[KenM]

I have been picking up Dungeon for awhile at my FLGS. I don't like the fact that Pazio is starting to do "subsriber only" adventures. I feel I'm not getting a full magaizne when they do that, and I can't support my FLGS if I subscribe. I hate the fact that Poly. is included. The statement from the person from Pazio said that He does not know what one to kill, well Poly is just an "add on" IMO. Bring back the old Dungeon, thats what people want. Make Poly an e-zine or something like that.

 

[RichGreen]

my views

Hi,

I've been buying Dungeon on and off since issue 4, and have bought every 3e issue. When I first heard Poly was being added to Dungeon, I wasn't exactly thrilled. However, nine or so issues on, I've liked a lot of it and think it deserves to stay. Note that although I've played many different RPGs over the 23 years I've been gaming, I've played D&D almost exclusively since 3e.

The Good Stuff

- News, interviews & reviews of d20 products and companies.
- Shadow Chasers, Pulp Heroes, Spelljammer (excellent!), Thunderball Rally & Hijinx mini-games. I haven't played any of them, but enjoyed reading them.
- Delta Green adventure
- Improved Initiative - d20 content from d20 publishers such as FFG. More of this would be good!
- Global Positioning Maps
- Living Greyhawk Journal -- The Bright Desert article was superb and I would like to see the rest of Oerth covered in similar articles seeing as Greyhawk fans are never going to get any further support from WotC.

The Dodgy Stuff

- Godlike -- OK, but took up four valuable pages.
- Downer, Bolt & Quiver -- not funny. Downer also takes up 2 or 3 pages that could be used for something else.

The Dungeon content since 3e has been great -- some excellent adventures (Headless, Razing of Redshore, Storm Giant's Keep, the Adventure Path series), Critical Threats, nice colour maps, the counters etc.

However, since the magazine has gone monthly, I've been somewhat shocked (like a lot of others) by the drop in page count for Dungeon and the number of adventures, the main reason I buy the magazine. I'm not a subscriber any more (after the debacle surrounding UK subscriptions) so don't get the bonus subscriber adventure. I was pretty shocked that issue 99 had only one adventure in it!

My suggestions:

1. Get rid of Downer & use the pages for something else (see Good Stuff above)

2. Put the long adventures in the "Dungeon month" when there is no mini-game in Poly. Run shorter adventures in the "Poly month". There should be a minimum of three adventures per issue.

3. Keep Critical Threats and Maps of Mystery to one of each max in Poly month to make room for more adventures. Run two of these in the Dungeon month.

4. Continue with Living Greyhawk articles like Zeif (in the stand alone LGG) and The Bright Desert.

5. Consider doing some more old D&D settings as minigames -- how about Al-Qadim/Arabian Adventures or Dark Sun?

6. Post some of the maps from the adventures on the website as WotC did. Put a password in the magazine if you want to restrict this to Dungeon buyers.

7. Do the same with the counters.

8. Conduct a reader survey!

Overall, I think the Paizo team are doing a good job and have improved the magazine. I look forward to getting each issue -- the stuff above would help
improve the situation since the magazine went monthly.

Cheers


Richard

 

[KenM]

As a subscriber, I'm immesely amused that you're irritated.

Not only do I get it cheaper, delivered to my door, but I get more stuff too!

Yes and by subscribing, your FLGS suffers. I don't like "subscriber only" content either.

 

[Wasteland Knight]

Seriously, I think they should cut down one or two of the mini-games and spend those issues supporting previous ones - either with adventures or other material. That way the games aren't just orphans, doomed to live out their waning lives in obscurity.

I agree 100% with King Stannis on this point. Maybe make the follow on part additional material and then a nice starting adventure with lots of room for expansion into a campaign.

 

[Wasteland Knight]

Seriously, I think they should cut down one or two of the mini-games and spend those issues supporting previous ones - either with adventures or other material. That way the games aren't just orphans, doomed to live out their waning lives in obscurity.

I agree 100% with King Stannis on this point. Maybe make the follow on part additional material and then a nice starting adventure with lots of room for expansion into a campaign.