Dungeon Magazine Quality Drop?

[Olive]

madness.

having worked in the media i can tell you that while authors SHOULD pick up erros, they don't. which is of course why we have editors. in a publication with some sort of non language workings like a computer programming magazine or a gaming magazine editors should be looking for errors there too.

 

[rounser]

I'd rather the editors spend their time on making sure the adventure's rocking rather than get too anal over NPC stats.

Coming into this thread I was expecting to see a complaint about structure or plot, not

3: AC. Kang Manjing, pg 60, Dex 13, Ac 10?? He should have had 11!

I remember Willie Walsh recoiling in terror on these boards from some garbled 3E-partial-standard-move-equivalent-action-speak. When the judge of the quality level of Dungeon Magazine is crunch nitpickery, you know the culture of the game has changed...

 

[Ycore Rixle]

I think Chris, Matt, and the other editors do a great job, and they have been doing a great job for a long time now - since before Paizo took over the license.

And I'm glad you liked the adventure enough to use it!

I'm sorry about any errors that slipped in. I do use PCGen (and sometimes eTools) to create NPCs, and I imagine that Monte and the writers of the other modules mentioned in this thread do as well. But unfortunately mistakes can still happen. As for the snake head on poor old Severus and the inappropriate alignment for Alfonse Drellus, those were artifacts left over from earlier drafts.

Trellian, your players must be quicker than mine! 3-4 days to get to the Marble Cage match? That match is the climax of the whole gladiatorial season - there are only four such events per year. In my playtesting Jeb and Squirt were sworn enemies and established solo gladiators by the time the Marble Cage was rolled onto the sands!

Finally, I can assure everyone that Paizo is absolutely not just a bunch of friends publishing each other's work. I've never met anyone from Paizo. But they've been great to work with, and in my experience they are ultimate professionals.

 

[Painfully]

Poor editing, while it CAN be worked around easily, is a sign of poor quality control by either the author, or the editors. While this isn't academia, I do think gamers deserve to be buying a product that is free of defects when it comes to game mechanics and typos.

Any editor who can't keep up with quality control for what he puts into print doesn't deserve to keep his job very long IMO.

As for the quality of Dungeon Magazine, I have no comment.

 

[Mouseferatu]

Working in the industry as both a writer and (occasional) developer, let me chime in.

You will never get a product 100% free of errors. Ever. It simply isn't possible, and to ask for it is unrealistic. The New York Times has typos. So does the average best-selling novel, the legal fine print on many TV commercials, and so forth.

That said, I agree that many companies need to hire more (or better) proofreaders. I am not saying that you shouldn't expect better. But it's unfair to expect perfection.

It doesn't matter how good the author is; we make mistakes. It doesn't matter how good the editor is; he misses stuff sometimes. (Heck, you should see the number of mistakes that do get caught; they're far more numerous than those that don't.)

Keep in mind that we only have X amount of time to look over a project, and we only have Y pairs of eyes to see it. Once a book hits the shelves, it's going to be read by a lot more people than have looked over it pre-publication.

Again, not saying you shouldn't ask for better. But keep in mind that we've got a lot to deal with, and it's simply unavoidable that some mistakes will be missed.

 

[Alzrius]

Well said.

We, the gamer, have the right to expect top-notch stuff, but we also have to keep in mind that the people writing and editing that stuff are only human, and everyone makes mistakes. Even big names do (remember that Critical Threat a few issues ago in Dungeon with a vampire that had a Con score? Chris Perkins wrote that one).

I'm not too worried about errors like these popping up now and again. "Stuff happens" as they say (well, that's not quite what they say, but you know that).

 

[Ranes]

Can't resist sharing this anecdote. A long time ago, in a small town far, far... Anyway, I was working for a magazine publishing company, a highly respected one, I hasten to add. Many of its titles were so-called market leaders. Whenever a new issue of anything came back from the printers, everyone would grab a copy and - those up against deadlines aside - have a read. There was an element of sport in this, as rival editorial teams would try to pick holes in their colleagues' work.

Even those of you who haven't worked in publishing know that articles in magazines and newspapers usually begin with a headline. Before the eye gets as far as the body text though, there is often a sentence or paragraph set in fairly large type, the purpose of which is to describe a little about the article beneath and possibly incorporate the writer's byline. Sometimes this piece is called a standfirst; other times it's called a strapline.

One day, I was flicking through the latest copy of the company's flagship title, along with a bunch of people in the middle of the editorial team's office. To my delight - and the team's horror - I read out loud a strapline from an article nobody else appeared to have turned to. It read:

"Absolutely, positively do not let this go to the printers until it has a proper strapline."

Another favourite, from the same company but a different title:

"Wibble, wibble, wibble, wibble, wibble, wibble, wibble, wibble."

I kid you not.

 

[King_Stannis]

Dungeon is a fantastic magazine. Anyone who would say otherwise due to an odd feat given here or a skill given there is just a nitpicker. Hey, you plunked down your money for it so I guess it's your right to nitpick...I'm just glad I don't game with people like you. And anyone who can't see past a few "numbers" errors and appreciate a good story is not someone I'd roll the dice with.

If I were Chris, I'd want to hit the wall. The guy edits a great magazine, devotes time to telling potential authors WHY there adventure wasn't accepted - almost unheard of when "stock" rejection letters are the norm. And what is his thanks? "This guy's got too may feats!". "This guy should have X hit points". Arghh.

In the words of William Shatner, "Get a life people!".

 

[DaveMage]

Excellent!

This is why I love reading these boards. We have authors, players, and industry folks all discussing issues that make the game (and presentation) better.

What a great opportunity for all involved!

I'll go back to lurking now...

-David

 

[Daredevill]

I see good and bad in Dungeon since they split from WotC.

They are going monthly with the mag. This should turn things for the better I hope.

They now have the freedom to use OGC and ideas from other sources besides D&D. Again, a step up.

They are using more mature themes which, for some of us, is a welcome change.

Inserts and goodies are getting better. (map of Cauldron, wow! nice stuff)

But some annoying things stand out as well:

No more unpublished authors. (this one just bugs me)

The artwork lately has been somewhat lacking. (i know, very subjective)

Typos and poor editing. Yes, a noticeable rise in mistakes in the text.

Anyway, my sub is due for renewal soon, and I'm undecided. I may renew just to get the new adventure path series. Seems like that might be worth a look.

I'm giving them another year, I got a good feeling about it...