Dungeon magazine says maybe more vile. Huzzah!

[BLACKDIRGE]

In dungeon 98, in response to a reader's letter titled Pro Vile, Dungeon stated that they are rethinking their stance on mature material. It seems they received an "overwhwlming" response from those of us who want this kind of material when they said they would not publish any more. I am glad to see that Dungaon is looking at both sides of this coin and look forward to more vile/mature stuff from the folks at Paizo.

I also find it very satisfying that there are enough of us pro vile people out there to make an "overwhelming" response, to use dungeon's own word.

Dirge

 

[Alzrius]

Alright! That is good news. I personally thought the backlash against the Vile material was somewhat harsh, though it was just as surprising that Paizo printed so many critical letters about that. I'm glad they received that overwhelming response to keep the Vileness coming.

 

[Darke]

Pro Vile all the way! (Dragon-wise)

das Darke

 

[Agnostic Paladin]

At the least, I want to see them use the drug rules. And maybe the possession rules; I can see several good adventures built around possessions.

 

[The Sigil]

The topic has been beaten to death, but I will chime in anyway - I was disappointed that we had the vile material published to begin with. I was somewhat encouraged by the "backlash" - though as far as I could tell, nothing has changed anyway over at the Paizo offices. I'm even more disappointed by the call for MORE VILE!!! in RPG material.

Most of us were introduced to this hobby in our pre-teen years ( ran a poll on this a while back). By pushing up the "Rating" of the game, we're pulling up the ladder behind us... if D&D had been "Mature Gaming" when YOU found it, would YOU have gotten into it?

And I guess I STILL don't see the need for scads of "Vile" material in a game that is allegedly about taking the part of heroes.

I know, I know, I'm bass-ackwards and conservative, but I want a game I can play with my kids. I want a game where we have heroes - the "real world" is nasty and vile and gritty enough already. D&D is supposed to be "escapism" for me into a world where light fights against darkness - not a rehash of the evening news where corrupt cops are squealed on by corrupt reporters when they beat corrupt criminals.

I don't want to hijack this thread, just pointing out that not everyone sees this as "good news" for the hobby.

--The Sigil

 

[Agamon]

I don't care one way or the other, as long as they don't seal any parts of the mag with uncut pages. That was annoying.

 

[BLACKDIRGE]

The topic has been beaten to death, but I will chime in anyway - I was disappointed that we had the vile material published to begin with. I was somewhat encouraged by the "backlash" - though as far as I could tell, nothing has changed anyway over at the Paizo offices. I'm even more disappointed by the call for MORE VILE!!! in RPG material.

Most of us were introduced to this hobby in our pre-teen years ( ran a poll on this a while back). By pushing up the "Rating" of the game, we're pulling up the ladder behind us... if D&D had been "Mature Gaming" when YOU found it, would YOU have gotten into it?

And I guess I STILL don't see the need for scads of "Vile" material in a game that is allegedly about taking the part of heroes.

I know, I know, I'm bass-ackwards and conservative, but I want a game I can play with my kids. I want a game where we have heroes - the "real world" is nasty and vile and gritty enough already. D&D is supposed to be "escapism" for me into a world where light fights against darkness - not a rehash of the evening news where corrupt cops are squealed on by corrupt reporters when they beat corrupt criminals.

I don't want to hijack this thread, just pointing out that not everyone sees this as "good news" for the hobby.

--The Sigil

Ahh.. there you are Sigil, I was wondering how long it would be before you showed up.

Look, I understand where you are coming from, If I had children I would not want them to be exposed to the material in the BoVD, but as an adult I like to have choices. My group and I have a lot of fun with the mature style of roleplaying and while I realize that this is not everyone's cup of tea I still like to have some support for the type of game I run. Now as always the vile stuff is completely optional and right now comprises a single book and two issues of a magazine, that's a pretty small amount, and at I can't seeing it growing much beyond that. Its kind of like TV or the internet, you avoid the channels or web pages that show stuff you don't like and have fun with the rest.

The game has grown, and in some regards grown up, so I truly think that now there is a place in the gaming community for vile and mature themed games. And I know that there is and will continue to be reams of material for you to enjoy with your children, which I hope you continue to do.

Dirge

 

[Tiefling]

The topic has been beaten to death, but I will chime in anyway - I was disappointed that we had the vile material published to begin with. I was somewhat encouraged by the "backlash" - though as far as I could tell, nothing has changed anyway over at the Paizo offices. I'm even more disappointed by the call for MORE VILE!!! in RPG material.

Most of us were introduced to this hobby in our pre-teen years ( ran a poll on this a while back). By pushing up the "Rating" of the game, we're pulling up the ladder behind us... if D&D had been "Mature Gaming" when YOU found it, would YOU have gotten into it?

Yes, I would still have gotten into it. I started at age eleven, and it's only been three years since then so I remember quite well. I think you underestimate the teen and pre-teen capacity for "Mature Content." I know for a fact that I wasn't the first twelve-year-old to start reading A Song of Ice and Fire, nor the last.

 

[Bendris Noulg]

Most of us were introduced to this hobby in our pre-teen years ( ran a poll on this a while back). By pushing up the "Rating" of the game, we're pulling up the ladder behind us... if D&D had been "Mature Gaming" when YOU found it, would YOU have gotten into it?

Got your old copy of Vault of the Drow laying around? Reread the description for Erelhui Cinlu. I was 14 when I "went" there, and it certainly didn't twist me any more than Keep on the Borderlands or Tomb of Horrors did.

Got a copy of Harbinger House? Ritual sacrifice driven by delusions of godhood, anybody?

Got a copy of The Illithiad? Need I go into that particular book of nastiness?

This stuff's always been there. Thing is, up to now, what and why has always been just an arbitrary decision of the DM, the facts lost in the ambiguity of general descriptions. Now, there's a solid rules-base for using it (an optional, non-Core base to boot that those who don't like it can ignore, keeping the game "kid friendly" as a norm).

Now, I've not been big on Dungeon; I own a total of 5, 3 of which are 2E, the 3E ones being the Vile issue and The Harrowing issue. Will I buy because of Vile content? Not likely. But I'm certainly not buying it now, so I guess I don't care... At the same time, I'm not keen on a Mature Book on Good (I don't want a counter to BoVD, it works just fine).

At the same time, BoVD and the mature content from Dragon and Dungeon presented the first material from WotC that didn't treat me like a 15 year old with an over-bearing parent lurking over my shoulder. I would certainly invite more of that. If anything, Paizo's error is in including this in Dungeon/Dragon issues; If the demand is that high, they might consider a 3rd publication expressly for it. That I might buy on a regular basis.

 

[Carnifex]

Considering how willing people are to let their children play a game which already involves the brutal and gory killing of large amounts of living creatures, even if it is for a good cause, I don't think the introduction of certain genuinely more mature issues is a bad idea. Sometimes it can make kids think a bit more about these things in a mature and sensible manner.

Of course, it should be purely optional. People have every right to not take part in 'vile' things. I personally don't own the Book of Vile Darkness and have no intention to buy it, because I dont need a book designed to be a gross-out trying to tell me how to introduce more mature and philosophical topics into my games, I can do that myself.