Dungeon magazine says maybe more vile. Huzzah!

[rounser]

I like the Adventure Path experiment in Dungeon, and think they should concentrate on useful changes like that.

The "vile" stuff draws attention to the magazine, so I can see why they want to do it again. Gratuitousness for it's own sake isn't my thing though, so I hope they don't waste too many more pages on it.

 

[The Sigil]

perhaps they should let this idea branch off into an alternative version of the magazine, or even three.

1- Dragon Magazine for Hardcore Conservative Panzies
2- Dragon Magazine Classic
3- Dragon Magazine *Mature*

Every post on this thread was more or less expected... "I am mature, I can handle and want this stuff in my game." Which I can respect, even if I happen to think your right to want this stuff in your game does not extend to the right to jam it down my throat.

And I have broached the idea of split magazines in the past, and think it is a good one... "Dragon Classic" for those who have no desire to see Vile content and "Dragon Mature" for those who do.

But the above post, if it was meant to be a troll, worked. My blood is positively boiling right now, because it's yet another ad hominim attack from you, Angcuru. If I was not making a concerted effort to keep from offending Eric's Grandmother, well, I'd be much nastier.

This isn't an isolated event, either. Sadly, my "ignore" list has gained its first member. The tenor of your posts just does not sit well with my palate and rather than let it get ugly, I'll just cut it off right here. I'll leave you on the list for a couple of weeks until I simmer down and can engage you in civil discussion. :-/

"Option One" as stated above is, quite frankly, unneccessary and insulting - and I'm sure you know this. It's akin to saying, "we should make a Dragon for the perverted, borderline criminal liberals."

I won't dignify it with further comment.

--The Sigil

 

[The Sigil]

Ahh.. there you are Sigil, I was wondering how long it would be before you showed up.

Look, I understand where you are coming from, If I had children I would not want them to be exposed to the material in the BoVD, but as an adult I like to have choices. My group and I have a lot of fun with the mature style of roleplaying and while I realize that this is not everyone's cup of tea I still like to have some support for the type of game I run. Now as always the vile stuff is completely optional and right now comprises a single book and two issues of a magazine, that's a pretty small amount, and at I can't seeing it growing much beyond that. Its kind of like TV or the internet, you avoid the channels or web pages that show stuff you don't like and have fun with the rest.

The game has grown, and in some regards grown up, so I truly think that now there is a place in the gaming community for vile and mature themed games. And I know that there is and will continue to be reams of material for you to enjoy with your children, which I hope you continue to do.

Dirge

I understand where you are coming from, too, Dirge and I respect that.

I just wanted to remind everyone that news such as this is not "huzzah" for everyone - just as news that "we will never do this again" was not "huzzah" for everyone, either.

I think we both agree to disagree on whether or not such content is appropriate for Dragon.

--The Sigil

 

[rounser]

Originally posted by Angcuru
perhaps they should let this idea branch off into an alternative version of the magazine, or even three.

1- Dragon Magazine for Hardcore Conservative Panzies
2- Dragon Magazine Classic
3- Dragon Magazine *Mature*

Actually, it should be more like this:

1 - Vile Polyhedron magazine for Lovers of Gratuitous Adventures & d20 Splat
2 - Dungeon magazine

 

[Bendris Noulg]

Who is the better villain, Jason or Darth Vader? Following the so-called "vile" line, it'd be Jason, and I guess we're all in agreement this simply isn't the case (despite George Lucas' "efforts").

Mayhap you could add Hannible Lector to the equation? Would answer and opinion be so divergent?

How about Jeoffry (Geofry?) Dalmer, the Milwaukee cannible?

How about the Manson Family and the Tate murder?

The difference here is that, in the real world, these folks are just whacked. In a fantasy world, however, their purposes, methods and actual acts themselves would have specific aims towards an actual gain in power and ability. Sure, you can have someone performing ritual murder in a D&D game without vile rules, but what is the purpose of these murders? Is it the delusion of obtaining power? If so, no rules are needed, and the PCs can take comfort in thwarting yet another whack-job with sicko perversions. If, however, these rituals actually gain power for the murderer, than the PCs are faced with a much darker reality: That someone would actually, with sound mind, make the concious decision to perform these acts, and that the pleasure gained from them isn't the result of an unhinged mental capacity but a willingness to pervert their own existance and blaspheme against the sanctity of life.

 

[Wayside]

So I'm a panzie because I don't revel in sadochistic content?

So people who enjoy the vile material (or produce it) are unoriginal, are only interested in "'shocking' material to get a thrill in a shallow attempt to entertain"..? That's not something you said, but the mudflinging works both ways.

Oh, and I think you meant sadism but were confused by the compound sadomasochism. Sadochism isn't a word.

 

[rounser]

So people who enjoy the vile material (or produce it) are unoriginal, are only interested in "'shocking' material to get a thrill in a shallow attempt to entertain"..?

The word they're looking for is gratuitous, not unoriginal. It's quite possible to be very original whilst being gratuitous. What I think they mean by unoriginal is that creating gratuitous, offensive and vulgar material is easy and artless. Comedy, for instance, is much harder and rewarding when done right.

On that note, if Dungeon must be gratuitous sometimes, I'd much rather they went the Evil Dead route, and tried for laughs whilst they were at it. Gratuitousness without teh funney seems pointless and ugly to me, but hey, there are people out there who love po-faced splatter movies, and some of them read Dungeon, no doubt.

As for you pro-"vile"-ers, please cease to intentionally confuse the terms "adult" or "mature" content with the idea that liking these forms of content makes you adult or mature. It's often quite the opposite.

 

[Angcuru]

Every post on this thread was more or less expected... "I am mature, I can handle and want this stuff in my game." Which I can respect, even if I happen to think your right to want this stuff in your game does not extend to the right to jam it down my throat.

And I have broached the idea of split magazines in the past, and think it is a good one... "Dragon Classic" for those who have no desire to see Vile content and "Dragon Mature" for those who do.

But the above post, if it was meant to be a troll, worked. My blood is positively boiling right now, because it's yet another ad hominim attack from you, Angcuru. If I was not making a concerted effort to keep from offending Eric's Grandmother, well, I'd be much nastier.

This isn't an isolated event, either. Sadly, my "ignore" list has gained its first member. The tenor of your posts just does not sit well with my palate and rather than let it get ugly, I'll just cut it off right here. I'll leave you on the list for a couple of weeks until I simmer down and can engage you in civil discussion. :-/

"Option One" as stated above is, quite frankly, unneccessary and insulting - and I'm sure you know this. It's akin to saying, "we should make a Dragon for the perverted, borderline criminal liberals."

I won't dignify it with further comment.

--The Sigil

Hey, interperet anything in anyway you want, but that doesn't mean I feel any particular way. And it wasn't meant to be trolling, not that it even is . I believe that Dragon is fine the way it is, and that it holds back QUITE A BIT. Anyone who would desire it to hold back significantly more is, in my opinion, a Hardcore Conservative Panzy.

BTW,
1 - I think you made the right decision with holding back. Flame wars suck.
2 - Try to be less closed-minded.

 

[Angcuru]

So I'm a panzie because I don't revel in sadochistic content?
Hmm.

If you don't like vile content, go with option two. I hate it when people try to twist my words around.

 

[Ranger REG]

Just try to keep the frequency of "mature" content to a minimum, like one issue a year (or a total of 100 pages if mature articles are scattered over a year's worth of issues).

And yes, it was annoying with the method they used to seal those mature content. You need only seal the outer portion of the article, not the entire pages. After all, only a few adults in the world knows how to use X-acto (hobby) knife. LOL!