Dungeon World

[Retreater]

I'm having a heck of a time challenging a party of 3 adventurers in Dungeon World. They can defeat any monster in the book with minimal effort. The cleric can heal any number of wounds using a Rote and expending zero resources. They are now 6th-7th level, and there is absolutely no challenge in the game. There has really been no threat of death throughout the campaign, with one character making the "cheat death" move (or whatever it's called). And he succeeded.
Am I just missing something?

 

[SoftDutch]

If you have not already I would suggest checking out the classic 16HP dragon write up. The TLDR is that you have to make the encounters challenging with the fiction. The tags help, and the rules support this approach.

 

[JeffB]

HARDER MOVES.

Encounter balance in DW happens in game and is variable.

Here's something I posted over at the Trollbridge a couple years ago or so for someone who was new to DW and having the same issue- similar to advice from 16HP dragon. Also the DW Guide is a must-read. In the immortal words of Yoda, "you must unlearn what you have learned"

DW GUIDE (direct PDF link)

I've beefed up foes with bigger stats and it it works. But the thing I have found makes the monsters tougher, is making "harder moves" across the board for the deadlier monsters like Dragons. You have to get out of the blow by blow/round by round mentality of combat like so many other rpgs.

GM "Your fighter hack and slashes the dragon, and (gets a 9) success with a cost. You deal your damage and your greatsword slides between a scale and imbeds deep, in fact you are having a hard time removing it.. the dragon howls in pain, he lifts into the air..what do you do? Hold on or let him take your ancestors enchanted" weapon?

"Uh...oh boy...I'm holding on..?"

GM "Ok, he flies high into the air, a few hundred feet and notices you, he starts shaking and making violent moves to throw you off! What do you do?"

"I'm holding on and trying to push the sword in deeper so it doesn't come out"

GM- "OK, defy danger using Strength"

ROLLS a 6....failure...

Now here I could say, the dragon was swooping down as the fighter falls...and maybe make up some stuff about plunging through some thatched roofs which helps break the fall..and then still deal a hefty amount of damage...

Or..maybe he doesn't fall..maybe he does plunge it deeper...further enraged, the dragon swoops down burning half the town down killing many including somebody important (which will change the plot so far, completely), or smashing/landing on another character , or maybe picking that character up in it's claws and flying off with both of them.

DW is like making an improvised action movie, and that takes getting used to.

 

[JeffB]

If you have not already I would suggest checking out the classic 16HP dragon write up. The TLDR is that you have to make the encounters challenging with the fiction. The tags help, and the rules support this approach.

This is so true- The "messy"tag for example, doesn't mean you get splattered with blood, it means you get messed up...broken bones, flesh shredded....you are on the ground and the Hag is coming back to rend you with it's filthy black claws dripping with poisonous ichor , you can't raise your sword arm due to the amount of pain.. (and right then is when I leave the fighter hanging and ask another player what his character is doing)

no rounds, no initiative...no action economy...etc...

HP are secondary to tags/fiction.

 

[SoftDutch]

This is so true- The "messy"tag for example, doesn't mean you get splattered with blood, it means you get messed up...broken bones, flesh shredded...

One of my players lost an arm to the messy tag. For the rest of the campaign it affected them in fiction, no stat changes whatsoever. The players were much more cautious of giant snakes from then on

 

[Retreater]

The characters are at such a high level and so min/maxed that they cannot fail a Hack and Slash. And they usually do bonus damage. They can defy almost any danger.
So the rule is that I can just - anytime I hit (with a messy attack) - lop off limbs? destroy armor?
That's going to be hard change to drop on the players in the middle of a campaign.

 

[Ovinomancer]

The characters are at such a high level and so min/maxed that they cannot fail a Hack and Slash. And they usually do bonus damage. They can defy almost any danger.
So the rule is that I can just - anytime I hit (with a messy attack) - lop off limbs? destroy armor?
That's going to be hard change to drop on the players in the middle of a campaign.

Well, you've painted yourself into a corner, largely, I think, because you've missed some key things about how differently DW plays from more traditional games. If you're unable to implement changes because it's too late, not sure that any advice will be helpful.

I mean, you say that the PCs can't fail hack and slash rolls (seems really odd) and have no fear while defying danger, I'd say something has gone very, very badly off the rails.

 

[Retreater]

I mean, you say that the PCs can't fail hack and slash rolls (seems really odd) and have no fear while defying danger, I'd say something has gone very, very badly off the rails.

They have some hellacious bonuses to hack and slash. Both of the warrior-types have +3 to hit from Strength. So I guess it's technically possible to fail, just incredibly unlikely. Same thing with defy danger on anything Strength based, which most of the times they are able to justify how they are using Strength to avoid the danger. Their armor rating is high enough that most monsters pose little threat, especially if they have one defending that can reduce the damage to the other target. Meanwhile the cleric is throwing resource-free heals to any paltry amount of damage that does get through.
I'm not sure how it has gotten off the rails. Because at this point, I'm wondering if Dungeon World is just impossibly easy - or maybe I've done something really wrong - maybe by assuming that it was easy to run and rules lite and not trying to find dastardly combos or something?

 

[JeffB]

how do you handle success with a cost? In a hack & slash, or defy danger?

 

[Eyes of Nine]

For some reason, my post got split off into its own thread all by its lonesome over here. Not that it was any great shakes. Just strange it ended up in it's own thread.

Anyway, your characters should be hitting 7-9 on a regular basis (they have to roll <7 around 41-42% of the time, right?). There should be some hard choices, or bad stuff happening to them, in addition to their successes.

You can also give them challenges where if strength is used, that's not going to end well. You can also have them encounter some creatures that stand far back and only hit them with ranged weapons.

If they are getting attacked by a horde, for every creature above 1 that is attacking, it does +1 damage. It's on page 22 of the rule book.

Make what they need/want be a situation where they have to talk there way to it, not fight.