Dungeon World
Yeah. My Barbarian and Fighter usually feel quite different. The Barbarian charges into melee with bloodlust and seldom backs down from a challenge. The Fighter defends and is armored to the teeth. They also roleplay quite differently.
I think my main issue has been with soft/hard moves and how challenging to make it.
I think my main issue has been with soft/hard moves and how challenging to make it.
doghead
thotd
Yeah. Despite understanding, I think, the concept, and being keen on the idea, this is where I struggled as well.
This would be my way ahead.
If they are looking for a more challenging/dangerous game, maybe see if they can give you examples of where they thought things might get seriously bad, but didn't. Then ask them what they were worried about happening. It may give you an insight into how to increase the challenge/danger down the track.
thotd
Manbearcat
Legend
@Nebulous
I don’t know about Rolld20, but DW is trivially run online via Skype (I’ve done it aplenty with friends afar).
@Retreater
How about this?
How about you briefly outline a singular moment of your game’s play (the situation framing > move resolution > outcome > subsequent framing) for each of:
It should be easy enough to work-shop what is going awry and how to improve your experience.
Also, broadly regarding combat:
1) Don’t be afraid to inflate numbers from stock monsters a bit as they progress (there is a site that has some truly awesome and interesting monsters out there). Truly brutal enemies should reflect that.
2) Navigating the danger of ranged enemies and those with significant reach advantage is a big thing in DW combat. Make it a thing.
3) Make control a thing. Make liberal use of the Forceful tag.
4) Leverage the environment. Obstacles should be used regularly to hamper PCs and also as things they can leverage themselves. Volcanic vents should ignore armor, sucking quicksand should require finesse and mental acuity to manage (the harder you struggle, the quicker you sink), etc.
5) Plenty of things (spells and even mundane things) should attack the emotions and the mind (perhaps pulling on hard memories where they’ll have to Defy Danger Charisma).
6) Ignore Armor + multiple enemies + debilities + take -1 forward.
Use all of these in concert to make combat compelling and filled with varying decision-points.
I don’t know about Rolld20, but DW is trivially run online via Skype (I’ve done it aplenty with friends afar).
@Retreater
How about this?
How about you briefly outline a singular moment of your game’s play (the situation framing > move resolution > outcome > subsequent framing) for each of:
- Undertake a Perilous Joirney
- Parley
- Combat
It should be easy enough to work-shop what is going awry and how to improve your experience.
Also, broadly regarding combat:
1) Don’t be afraid to inflate numbers from stock monsters a bit as they progress (there is a site that has some truly awesome and interesting monsters out there). Truly brutal enemies should reflect that.
2) Navigating the danger of ranged enemies and those with significant reach advantage is a big thing in DW combat. Make it a thing.
3) Make control a thing. Make liberal use of the Forceful tag.
4) Leverage the environment. Obstacles should be used regularly to hamper PCs and also as things they can leverage themselves. Volcanic vents should ignore armor, sucking quicksand should require finesse and mental acuity to manage (the harder you struggle, the quicker you sink), etc.
5) Plenty of things (spells and even mundane things) should attack the emotions and the mind (perhaps pulling on hard memories where they’ll have to Defy Danger Charisma).
6) Ignore Armor + multiple enemies + debilities + take -1 forward.
Use all of these in concert to make combat compelling and filled with varying decision-points.
Nebulous
Legend
How does Dungeon World handle long term campaigns, vs. something shorter. I'm looking at Servants of the Cinder Queen, a little scenario I found. I like it. Although myself and my group would really need to relearn everything we know about Dungeons & Dragons and not try to incorporate that playstyle.
Manbearcat
Legend
I’ve run many 6 month campaigns and plenty of 1-2 shots. It handles both well.
Be wary of tightly prescribed scenarios however (though I don’t know your scenario above).
The PBtA family of games is about “playing to find out what happens.” The machinery and ethos of the games allows for/perpetuates exactly that.
DW specifically is about making a map (with lots of blanks) together and discovering these characters and their place in the 1st session. Then the GM will come up with broad antagonism and obstacles (Fronts) to interpose against the PCs (these will evolve and more will emerge through play). Through the course of all of these parts interacting, we’ll find out who all of these people/things/places are, through play.
Be wary of tightly prescribed scenarios however (though I don’t know your scenario above).
The PBtA family of games is about “playing to find out what happens.” The machinery and ethos of the games allows for/perpetuates exactly that.
DW specifically is about making a map (with lots of blanks) together and discovering these characters and their place in the 1st session. Then the GM will come up with broad antagonism and obstacles (Fronts) to interpose against the PCs (these will evolve and more will emerge through play). Through the course of all of these parts interacting, we’ll find out who all of these people/things/places are, through play.
Nebulous
Legend
Servants of the Cinder Queen has 23 pages of content. From the introduction it states:
Introduction
---------------------------------------------------------------
This adventure is intended for use with the Dungeon World rules, and as such is structured differently than a traditional RPG adventure. Servants of the Cinder Queen is a self-contained, but includes an Adventure Front and Grim Portents (pp 2-3) which you may see fit to use as a component in any campaign that extends beyond the adventure.
While the adventure is divided into multiple “Areas” as might be expected of a traditional RPG module, for the most part these areas are not fully fleshed out with detailed maps and descriptions. Instead, the contents of each Area are suggested by the following elements:
- Connections note what other Areas
may be reached from the Area in
question. It’s up to the GM and
players to fill in the details of how
they get from place to place, and
what they discover along the way.
Introduction
---------------------------------------------------------------
This adventure is intended for use with the Dungeon World rules, and as such is structured differently than a traditional RPG adventure. Servants of the Cinder Queen is a self-contained, but includes an Adventure Front and Grim Portents (pp 2-3) which you may see fit to use as a component in any campaign that extends beyond the adventure.
While the adventure is divided into multiple “Areas” as might be expected of a traditional RPG module, for the most part these areas are not fully fleshed out with detailed maps and descriptions. Instead, the contents of each Area are suggested by the following elements:
- Connections note what other Areas
may be reached from the Area in
question. It’s up to the GM and
players to fill in the details of how
they get from place to place, and
what they discover along the way.
@Manbearcat the three examples:
Undertake a Perilous Journey
The party was needing to travel 5 days through the cavernous tunnels that linked the last bastion of the subterranean dwarven empire, Darrowhold, to the ancient and abandoned ancestral crypt. The cleric took the roll of the trailblazer and succeeded with a 10+. The barbarian took the roll of the scout and got a 7-9. The fighter was the quartermaster and failed with a 1-6.
The cleric got them to the crypt in 5 days. When the barbarian got them to the crypt, he lead them right into a mining operation with a dozen derro - because it wasn't a hard failure I said that it wasn't an ambush, just a straight up fight. The quartermaster who failed ended up getting his pack caught on a stalagmite, ripping open the bag, and having half their food spill into a pool of water, ruining it. Luckily, the group over-prepared so they would still have enough food as long as they didn't linger in their exploration of the crypt or get lost on the way back.
Parley
Most of the time the group wants to parley, it's actually a Charisma Defy Danger as they are just trying to sweet talk a guard with nothing to offer. A recent case was the group sought out the dwarven thane to request a runesmith to accompany them back to their home city to repair a situation. They offered a pact between the home city and the dwarves, but got a 7-9 result. The thane said that he would agree to their offer, only after the party recovered an heirloom treasure from the ancestral crypts (see above).
Combat
This is one of the most recent and egregious examples. (It's been a couple weeks, so I'll try to remember everything.) The party was exploring the crypt and found in the central chamber was a pile of bones and there was an invisible lich standing nearby. The group had heard of a skeletal dragon in the area, so the cleric cast True Seeing and instantly saw the lich. The bones animated and became a dragonbone.
Barbarian charges and demolishes the dragonbone in two rounds, rolling so well the dragonbone doesn't get a chance to do a move on him. (Like getting a 12 and a 13). But even if it did, the fighter had a defend action to soften the blows on the barbarian.
The lich calls forth a horde of ravenous ghouls. Cleric turns undead with a 10+. All the ghouls run away, lich is dazed. Something happens (I forget what) to make the lich visible - maybe the dust from the dragonbone is thrown over it or something. Fighter and Barbarian can see the lich now. They hack him to pieces before he gets an attack.
No one ever rolls poorly enough for me to get a DM move. Or if they do, they have powers to "turn danger against itself."
Undertake a Perilous Journey
The party was needing to travel 5 days through the cavernous tunnels that linked the last bastion of the subterranean dwarven empire, Darrowhold, to the ancient and abandoned ancestral crypt. The cleric took the roll of the trailblazer and succeeded with a 10+. The barbarian took the roll of the scout and got a 7-9. The fighter was the quartermaster and failed with a 1-6.
The cleric got them to the crypt in 5 days. When the barbarian got them to the crypt, he lead them right into a mining operation with a dozen derro - because it wasn't a hard failure I said that it wasn't an ambush, just a straight up fight. The quartermaster who failed ended up getting his pack caught on a stalagmite, ripping open the bag, and having half their food spill into a pool of water, ruining it. Luckily, the group over-prepared so they would still have enough food as long as they didn't linger in their exploration of the crypt or get lost on the way back.
Parley
Most of the time the group wants to parley, it's actually a Charisma Defy Danger as they are just trying to sweet talk a guard with nothing to offer. A recent case was the group sought out the dwarven thane to request a runesmith to accompany them back to their home city to repair a situation. They offered a pact between the home city and the dwarves, but got a 7-9 result. The thane said that he would agree to their offer, only after the party recovered an heirloom treasure from the ancestral crypts (see above).
Combat
This is one of the most recent and egregious examples. (It's been a couple weeks, so I'll try to remember everything.) The party was exploring the crypt and found in the central chamber was a pile of bones and there was an invisible lich standing nearby. The group had heard of a skeletal dragon in the area, so the cleric cast True Seeing and instantly saw the lich. The bones animated and became a dragonbone.
Barbarian charges and demolishes the dragonbone in two rounds, rolling so well the dragonbone doesn't get a chance to do a move on him. (Like getting a 12 and a 13). But even if it did, the fighter had a defend action to soften the blows on the barbarian.
The lich calls forth a horde of ravenous ghouls. Cleric turns undead with a 10+. All the ghouls run away, lich is dazed. Something happens (I forget what) to make the lich visible - maybe the dust from the dragonbone is thrown over it or something. Fighter and Barbarian can see the lich now. They hack him to pieces before he gets an attack.
No one ever rolls poorly enough for me to get a DM move. Or if they do, they have powers to "turn danger against itself."
Manbearcat
Legend
@Nebulous
That looks good (in terms of DW architecture).
If you get a game up and running, I would suggest making a post on here about it after your initial session (which should be map > character creation > and a few scenes of play), with a photo of the map you and your players worked up, a copy of the character sheets, and your general ideas.
The folks that have commented on this thread (and some others who have not) have good exposure to PBtA games and should be able to provide some helpful thoughts on making the subsequent session thematically coherent and dangerous/interesting.
That looks good (in terms of DW architecture).
If you get a game up and running, I would suggest making a post on here about it after your initial session (which should be map > character creation > and a few scenes of play), with a photo of the map you and your players worked up, a copy of the character sheets, and your general ideas.
The folks that have commented on this thread (and some others who have not) have good exposure to PBtA games and should be able to provide some helpful thoughts on making the subsequent session thematically coherent and dangerous/interesting.
