Dungeon World

[JeffB]

I'm coming in pretty late but I ran a DW session up to level 10 over 2 years.

It was a big learning curve and I experience what youre talling about in combat acutely. But there are some big shifts in approach vs d&d and the like, much of which was mentioned above.

In practice there were spme thinga that are in the book, but not at all obvious.

1) players have to qualify for a move, and YOU get to decide what move they make. This is important, because sometimes a charavter simple cant hack and slash a creature. Big dragon? Might need to climb it first. Charging an ogre with archers left and right? Might have to deal with those arrows first. Fight with a death knight with enchanted armor? Maybe they're invulnerable until you find a way to deactivate the armor. Make it clear to the players they can't just make a roll, but have to describe what theyre trying to do. Having multiple rolls to get to roll hack and slash etc also is a way of ramping up the difficulty somewhat.

2) Modifying and creating new creatures is absolutely in the book. Maybe you've got a crocodile, but it can breathe fire. If nothing else this makes creatures an unpredictable and interesting discovery.

3) think about hard moves for some locations and monsters you're thinking of using ahead of time. Straight damage is boring. Instead make creatures that can blind the characters, rip their arms off, give them hideous scars across their face, burn them, etc. This in my experience makes players far more afraid as it threatens the concept of their character. That bard might not worry about the goblins if he can recover his hitpoints, but if they mess up his face it might be another story!

4) absolutely communicate this to the players because they need to be onboard with it or DW doesn't work. Tell them not every orc will have the same abilities, thelat they're character can be maimed, or poisoned to death (even while they still have hp) burned so hideously they'll be shunned ny society.

I only had one death in my campaign, but plenty of scares and close calls. Someone blew out the bottom of an island floating in the sky and managed to jump to safety before they fell to their doom. There were magmin that shot vaporising rays from their hands that luckily no one got hit with. There were vine creatures that burrowed into your brain and made you a thrall and a crocodillian that held a barbarian in its mouth unable to do anything except luckily end it by digging his hand in its eye and ripping it out.

Excellent advice.

I also cannot emphasize #1 enough. Don't speak in "moves"


generally speaking-
I'm constantly saying "what do you do" (And I always use the PC's name not the player)- If they come back with the name of a move, I tell them they need to tell me how they are doing it-- eventually they stop using the move names, and just describe the fiction that triggers a move- In DW combat, it's easy to assume Hack & Slash for things, BUT- if the players describe what they are doing, you often will get another triggering move that makes things MUCH more interesting (defy danger most of the time).

I'm going to H&S the Ettin….

OK, but tell me what you do Aragorn....

so I run up to him from behind, and try to stab him in the back..

You run up to him...roll + dex to avoid him...he has two heads and long arms....

 

[Manbearcat]

@Retreater

What you may want to do is post a singular instance of play from your next session which you found troubling in execution.

When I say singular instance, I don’t mean “at the conflict/encounter level”. I mean quite literally “one micro-moment if situation framing (GM Soft Move) > player action declaration that triggered a move > the move and its results > how you moved the fiction forward post-move.

From my vantage, that tight zoom and forensic level of post-mortem is the most helpful thing for a burgeoning GM (regardless of game, but especially this sort of system). All a play session is is the aggregated continuity of all of those moments together.

So maybe post one of those.

 

[Darth Solo]

This game is bad because it controls players decisions.

Everything about it is control.

What if FATE characters were free if GM control?

 

[Panda-s1]

This game is bad because it controls players decisions.

Everything about it is control.

What if FATE characters were free if GM control?

yeah, no, it doesn't "control" player decisions, it decides when a decision is up to probability and how to resolve that decision.

 

[pemerton]

This game is bad because it controls players decisions.

Everything about it is control.

What if FATE characters were free if GM control?

This thread is about Dungeon World, not Fate. But what you say about Fate I think also is not true.

 

[JeffB]

This game is bad because it controls players decisions.

How many times have you played DW?

 

[Retreater]

@Retreater

What you may want to do is post a singular instance of play from your next session which you found troubling in execution.

When I say singular instance, I don’t mean “at the conflict/encounter level”. I mean quite literally “one micro-moment if situation framing (GM Soft Move) > player action declaration that triggered a move > the move and its results > how you moved the fiction forward post-move.

From my vantage, that tight zoom and forensic level of post-mortem is the most helpful thing for a burgeoning GM (regardless of game, but especially this sort of system). All a play session is is the aggregated continuity of all of those moments together.

So maybe post one of those.

We should be playing this Monday, so I'll hopefully have either a positive report or an example of what didn't work.

 

[THEMNGMNT]

This is a great thread. Really, really interesting discussion. Thanks to all who are contributing positively.

 

[Retreater]

Ok. Just wrapped up my Dungeon World session this evening. Here's how it went down for the first scene (putting all two hours of gameplay would make a long thread). (Looking for feedback/criticism/advice/etc):
Barbarian, Cleric, and Fighter pushed their way out of the subterranean fungal forest (completing a Perilous Journey from last session) and broke into the Goblin Slave Pits of the nefarious Black City of the Fallen Dwarves. The goblin miners, searching for chaos stone, were surprised and the Barbarian tried to show they were no enemies. (I had the player roll Defy Danger - Charisma. Result was a 7-9.) The goblins did not attack, but were instead frightened of the Barbarian, who could either jump in and attack or allow them to run away. The player chose to allow them to run away. They were heading to get their Orc overlords.
The barbarian tried to climb out of the trench. (I had the player roll Defy Danger - Strength to climb out. Result was a 7-9.) I gave the option to ruin the climb for the other players by knocking loose the handholds or to make enough noise in the ascent to let the Orcs know the group's precise position. The player chose the second option.
Two orc slavers with whips and a huge brute orc mutant berserker barreled down the trench to their positions. The berserker swung his jagged blade wildly. The fighter stepped forward to Defend the cleric, but the slaver ensnared him in a whip (failed a Defy Danger with a 7-9), but he broke out with a Defy Danger - Strength (10+) and was able to Hack and Slash the slaver and cleave off his head. The Barbarian leapt from the high vantage point, making a Defy Danger to avoid the attack. He rolled a 7-9 and the Orc mutant clipped him for 1d10+5 damage before billowing out a howl to awaken the slumbering chaos stones, which erupted into flailing fleshy tentacles. The cleric Defied Danger to get to the mutant and Hack and Slashed (10+) with his mace. He did the damage, but I said a pustule popped, spraying acid at the Barbarian and Cleric engaged with them. They'd have to defy danger. (The cleric argued that he hit with a success and that I shouldn't have done the attack - is that right?) Anyway, they failed the Defy Danger and took damage. I had them Defy Danger against the mutating effect of the damage, and they both succeeded.
The fighter attempted to grapple the second slaver. He got a 7-9 on a Defy Danger - Strength. He tackled the slaver, but they slid further down the trench, away from the rest of the party. He was surrounded by four panicked goblin miners who turned their weapons on him. He did a Defy Danger - Strength (10+ result) to use the slaver as a shield and the goblins pummeled the slaver to death.
Two more good hits from the barbarian, and the orc mutant was killed. The group was able to heal up, but now rolling for rotes, the cleric got unwelcome attention from his magic. The sorcerer-priest of the Black Fire Ziggurat, Balthazar, called out to the party to come see him. The group decided to head that direction.
By the end of the session, the group had ended up on the run from the dwarven guards, having lost their weapons and armor, spells running low, and looking for a place to catch a break.
I don't know if I overdid it this session. The players did seem to have fun, but were frustrated when their failures (rolls of 1-6) had ramifications that hurt the rest of the party (like losing their weapons and armor), being captured, etc.

 

[Manbearcat]

Alright @Retreater . Good stuff! Thanks for posting that.

I don't want to do this lump sum in one post and I don't have time. So lets just focus on a couple things and move through it in continuity of your post.

1) I'm assuming the following is correct about the Undertake a Perilous Journey move:

a) The destination was the Goblin Slave Pits of the nefarious Black City of the Fallen Dwarves.

b) They knew their way there either via map, they'd been there before, a guide, instruction of some sort.

Remember if both (a) and (b) aren't in play, you don't UaPJ, its just typical move structure as you set out to wander the wild in search of x. For UaPJ, the move requires, hostile terrain, a destination, and the PCs know where they're going.

2) What were the results of the UaPJ move (the mechanics and the fallout you put on the group, please)?

3) On this:

(I had the player roll Defy Danger - Charisma. Result was a 7-9.) The goblins did not attack, but were instead frightened of the Barbarian, who could either jump in and attack or allow them to run away. The player chose to allow them to run away. They were heading to get their Orc overlords.

How did you convey the fiction (your soft move) after the player made their move? As close to verbatim as you can get off recollection, please.

What GM move did you attempt to make (from the list)? How successful do you think you were at it?

Here, might be a way I would have done it (I'm assuming no one speaks Goblin):

GM MOVE - Tell them the requirements/consequences and ask

"The barking tongue is foreign to you, but you've soaked up a few words in your time. The one with a chewed off ear, rotted teeth, and a slick red tuft of fur as a neckbeard is gesticulating wildly at the others who are frozen in fear. His brow is furrowed as he points at you and then points upwards out of the trench toward the encampment proper. He violently shouts the word <master>, which you're familiar with, and then vomits out an Orcish name that is borderline impossible to pronounce. He does this repeatedly with greater vehemence each time.

When the frozen goblins don't respond, he huffs and makes a purposeful rush for the rickety ladder that leads from the pit up to the encampment.

Are you letting him go?"