Dungeons and Realism rpg

[Artturi Laitakari]

A typical monomyth story starts with a total nobody, 0 level character, and after 1-3 stories/movies, the guy is a total messiah.

Well, that is totally unrealistic. Only Ars Magica takes a realistic view on progression and characters grow in power in decades, not in a few or at worst, in one year.

D&D could easily start with 1st level characters and STOP progression right there, and reward characters with Magical items, and they would increase in power quite well, and fast. You could even rule out that magic that people channel does not exist, but you can only use magic through magic items!
(or limit progression to one level per active adventuring year).


You could basically play Wushu RPG and reward characters with magic items to let them grown in power.
(Wushu starts bad ass stats so those should be limited somehow).


As I am not the first person to think of this, can anyone point me to a game like this?

 

[Artturi Laitakari]

http://danielbayn.com/wushu/wyrd-fu/

This is how I think RPG's should be designed...

 

[Nagol]

There are a lot of RPGs that take a more tempered view of power growth.

Pendragon, Fantasy Hero, GURPS, and Runequest have much slower growth rates than D&D. Heck, to gain any growth in a PC at all in classic Traveler requires the PC to effectively retire for a couple of years!.

In fact, there are few RPGs outside of D&D and its close clones where the growth curve is anywhere near as sharp. D&D has been making that curve steeper rather than more shallow over the course if the edition treadmill. 1e had both a geometric initial experience delta between levels that converted to a constant delta once name level was reached and typically required a few adventures per level than later editions did. 3e moved that to a linear growth experience delta and changed the awards so that 13ish appropriate-level encounters (not adventures; encounters) would grant a level increase. 5e is slightly shortened that to a bit more than 11 encounters, IIRC.

 

[Nagol]

<snip>

As I am not the first person to think of this, can anyone point me to a game like this?

Probably dozens. Pendragon, Savage Worlds, BESM, Hero System, GURPS, FATE, E6 and its variants, Harn, Runequest 1-3e... There are so many.

 

[Arilyn]

Yes, there are lots. DnD is terribly unrealistic.....but gaining levels, and new abilities is fun. To me this is the main appeal of the game, since the rest of it is unrealistic as well. DnD will never be my favourite, but it's great for casual playing, or times I just want to have fun building a character with lots of pre-made pieces.

 

[Blue]

For advancement there are two rather divergent types of classical RPGs - zero to hero like D&D, and those where you start off as heroes and advance in persoonal power slowly, though you may get richer, more contacts, etc. Superhero RPGs are often an example of the latter.

It's just one of the design patterns that has worked. As you pointed out, it's classic monomyth that we've been inudated with in movies, plays and books. The problem, as you mention, is not the zero to hero, but the problem is the pace.

In 5e specifically, part of the issue is that attrition and resource management is part of it, but resetting on a 24-hour basis. So discounting days of nothing happening, most days that include encounters will include lots/hard encounters. These take up a lot of session time. And the reward every couple of sessions is level advancement from the XP given. So with every day with any enocounters often leading to a full day of encounters because of wanting attrition during the 24 hour resource recharge cycle, you get lots of XP in a short cycle of in-game time.

Now, I remember playing AD&D 2nd Ed, and after about 9th level it was a year of playing - and these were 8+ hour weekend days every week - to level up. But going that long in real life doesn't seem to be where the state fo the game - any RPG - currently lies.

So to solve this with a zero to hero that's often attrition-based like 5e, you need to expand out the time to recover resources. The DMG has variant rest times such as a week for a long rest, but that breaks it a few months to 1-2 years. Still fast. The middle earth 5e game also uses expanded rest rules, where an entire journey needs to be completed before a long rest, and then only someplace safe and hospitable.

You need to address that because ridiculously fast advancement still happens in just a hdnful of levels, but it's only part of it. You also need to schedule in downtime. And that's much more on the DM and the players. I think they have some nods in the right direction witht he downtime rules and the UA expansion to them, but those are still looking at 10 days as a long time, not thinking about months or years between adventures. But that's really a stylistic choice that not every table will embrace.

 

[dbm]

I agree with the other posters - there are many games that have much flatter progression than d20 games.

Just to add another data point for games that actively address the passage of time - The One Ring also takes a similar view to Ars Magica in that there are adventuring periods and 'Fellowship' phases where your character develops. This is a pretty cool system that factors in your relation to different cultures and settlements in addition to your skills and experience.

 

[LordEntrails]

If the GM wants to change the progression rate, in D&D (any version) or any game all they have to do is change it.

If you want to play 5E but want your characters to be first level for the first 150 fights, then they are. I know of more than one group that uses extremely slow (by traditional D&D standards) milestone leveling.

This is such an easy thing to control, that it should just be done.

 

[Mallus]

Play Traveller - just re-fluff all the science-y stuff into the most convenient fantasy analogues, i.e. starship = airship, battle dress (power armor) = magical armor, psionics = magic, etc.

 

[Tony Vargas]

Most RPGs use more modest progression than D&D's leveling, starting characters at a genre-appropriate level of competence, and keeping them there a long time, maybe with a fair amount of opportunity for lateral development.

I D&D, just pick the level that fits what you're after, start there, and either stay there, or use milestone leveling when it fits the story arc. Maybe have characters progress from 7th to 9th level over a whole campaign, for instance. It's not a bad idea, D&D has generally worked best in a 'sweet spot' range of levels, 3-8, 2-10, etc... in 5e, it's something around 4-11.