Dungeons & Dragons, 4th Edition: Remastered Director's Cut

[knightofround]

I just don't understand your cynicism. If the products are not a upgrade for you (ie director cut/remaster) don't buy it. If they're too unbalanced, don't allow it. Heck you can even preview the stuff on DDI to determine whether or not you'd be wasting your money.

As long as the systems are fully compatible you should have no problem bringing an essentials player up-to-speed with core rules, or vice-versua. And if they are not compatible, then WotC would be losing profit from this product rather than gaining from it. It's in their own best interest to keep them compatible.

Seriously, this game is about imagination and opening up to new ideas. WotC is out to make a profit like anyone else, so they're hedging their bets by making the content interesting enough to intrigue old players just in-case the marketing strategy fails. And, as you yourself mentioned, we've been hurting on the DM/Player availability for several years now. The game *needs* marketing, and they're trying to do it. I would certainly welcome any product that brought more people into D&D. Lower price points and less complexity is a good way to go about it.

Think of it like baseball, with major and minor leagues. The major leagues gets most the attention. However the sport could not thrive without the minor leagues keeping the sport alive in local areas and training players. And the vast majority of major league players come from the minor leagues.

 

[Majoru Oakheart]

What exactly is she having a problem grasping. Are you using multiple PHB's and/or splats? I guess I'm trying to understand what is difficult in creating a 1st level character only using options from PHB 1?

I can't answer for him, but I can say what my gf is having a problem with. In her case, D&D is her first game. I get the impression that she played 3e for a short while but never really understood it either.

She's having a problem with a number of things. She forgets to check the bonus to hit under each power. She always looks at the basic attack listed on the front page of her character sheet for everything. This means she forgets to see what defense the attack targets as well as uses the incorrect bonus to hit a lot of the time.

She almost always forgets to add circumstantial bonuses that aren't included in her powers. If the power says "Add your wisdom modifier in damage if you have a wolf" and it isn't included in the final damage at the end of the power, she'll forget about it.

She forgets to make 2 attacks with her character almost every time on the powers that allow 2 attacks. She doesn't read the header(i.e. the number of targets, how many attacks to make, etc) of the powers, she just knows that she uses a power, it allows her to make an attack roll then she rolls damage. Often, if the power does anything other than that, she'll forget it.

That's also why she uses mostly at-wills, not seeing the benefit in most of her encounter powers or dailies. She's taken to making notes for herself on her character sheet. It amuses me slightly when she writes "2x" on her Twin Strike power, right below where the power says to make 2 attacks.

She didn't understand the concept of charging at all. She gets confused over the action economy fairly regularly.

She's getting better, but this might give you a sense of where newbies have issues.

 

[Majoru Oakheart]

She wanted to play a character with an animal companion. So she's playing a BM Ranger. Most of the decision points are meaningless without knowing the game. Arranging stats, choosing powers, choosing feats (especially feats) are difficult without having a frame of reference from experience in previous editions. This is my first 4e player who was not a dnd veteran.

Yeah, my gf had the same issue. She looked at the list of feats in the character builder and had nearly 0 context as to what she should be taken or how useful any of them were. During play, she forgets she has any feats at all.

 

[SkidAce]

When I was introduced to D&D, my DM asked questions about what I wanted and then built the character for me. After I learned, I started making my own from scratch.

For BRAND SPANKING NEW players, don't throw the entire book at them (not saying anyone in particular does) walk them through their intent.

IMO.

 

[cavalier973]

It seems to me that WoTC already put out two "newbie intro" versions of the game--and one of them is free of charge off their website. I got the "Roleplayers Starter Kit" and tried out the new rules before I sprung (sprang?) for the core books.

Still, I'm a sucker for this sort of thing, and may find myself snagging a "4e Red Box" even though I already have everything I need. At least it will have new dungeon tiles (I'm assuming).

 

[cavalier973]

What exactly is she having a problem grasping. Are you using multiple PHB's and/or splats? I guess I'm trying to understand what is difficult in creating a 1st level character only using options from PHB 1?

It's a challenge to do so without help or experience. I made up some new characters to play with my kids, and I felt the need to redo the characters with the character builder program just to make sure I did everything right (I got most of it). Making a character from the PHB involves quite a bit of page flipping the first time through.

 

[samursus]

Just a quick add-on to the "gf new to RPGs/D&D" discussion. My gf is doing a lot better now, but she still has problems remembering all her options...even with a slew of cards laid out before her. The other DM in my group has an even worse time with his gf... she seems unable to even retain knowledge of what class she is playing (granted we have 2 games going). Also, my cousin who is pretty inexperienced with D&D also had problems making relevant choices when making her characters.

In my experience, every new player I have brought has had (still has) issues with the complexity. Looking forward to Essentials myself

 

[Wik]

Yeah. I don't get this thread. As a bladerunner JUNKY, when I hear "Director's Cut", I think "New and Improved" - I do not hear "OMG, it's gonna cost me money!".

I mean, there have been poor Director's Cuts out there (Donnie Darko springs to mind right away), but even in that case, I see it as "here's a different version of something you're interested in, that you may not like".

The D&D essentials books seem very interesting to me, and I'll be sure to pick them up. WHether I use them or not remains to be seen. What amuses me is that people complain about wotc releasing content that they don't want to see. The answer is... don't buy it! There's a "gotta catch them all" mentality these days that I find funny, looking back on the TSR days where someone with that mentality would have to be independantly wealthy (since TSR could release 4-6 products a month!).

Buy what interests you, and ignore the rest. It might be easy for you to learn the rules as they stand, and if that's the case, congrats. But not everyone is you - different people learn the game in different ways. So I say, bring on the essentials.

 

[jorwland]

This is a pretty old argument. I am sure there in a forum somewhere people are saying the same things about the apple iPhone 4. Welcome to capitalism: Companies want my money. I want their product. We make an exchange, or we don't. Rinse and repeat. It's not cynicism to think that Hasbro/WotC wants your money. It's a simple fact. But nor is it cynicism to think that some people want the essentials line of products and some don't.

I for one want the D&D brand to continue well into my dotage and beyond. want my children, then future grandchildren to play it...and I don't want to spend my days making product for them. It's easier for me to work for a couple hours and buy the new essentials "red box" than it is for me to write the content within it. My $20 bucks only "cost" me an hour of time, but I would guess that the red box would take me a hundred hours.

Capitalism is awesome! Instead of slaving for a hundred hours over a streamlined version of D&D essentials to introduce the game to new players, such as my nephew who lives in another state, I can spend $20 and give it to him with excellent artwork, dice, etc.! That is a pretty fair exchange of my time (ie money)

If it's not for you, don't buy it. I can never understand the constant effort to deter others from spending THEIR money as THEY want. Some people spend money on this: The 9 Stupidest Products Of All Time (VIDEO)!

 

[TarionzCousin]

You are cynical about my cynicism?

Quoted for posterity. This sentence is funny all by itself.