WotC Dungeons & Dragons Fans Seek Removal of Oriental Adventures From Online Marketplace

[Wulfhelm]

At a certain point, can't OA be bad or frustrating without being racist?

Exactly.

Watching some of the discussions on other social media, YT etc. I see mostly the two poles of a.) the outrage crowd trying to ban it for being racist propaganda and b.) OSR grogs defending it as a great supplement that you should totally get and play right now.

When in my opinion, it is neither. There were, for the time, some neat ideas in there (like the proficiency system), which mostly had nothing to do per se with the setting, but it was a book cobbled together in a few months, built on nothing but enthusiasm for the subject manner and hastily devoured, insufficiently digested research - at least that's how it looks like to me. It should neither be put on a bonfire, nor on a pedestal, but simply be regarded as a stepping stone in the history of the hobby and a product of its time.

 

[Wulfhelm]

So?

... so why would the idea of making one about Japan or China or Korea be outlandish?

 

[Derren]

Cultural appropriation isn’t all the same gravity. Using the stylised images of Native American leaders as the mascot for sports clubs by the people who stole their land is not on the same level as opening a French restaurant in your home town because you enjoy cooking that kind of food.

Just because something involves using another cultures identity. It doesn’t make it automatically immoral.

What is and isn't immoral is, sadly, decided by twitter. When someone starts screaming and has enough range others will latch on and start changing "racism!", no matter how minor it actually is.

 

[Derren]

... so why would the idea of making one about Japan or China or Korea be outlandish?

1. Because WotC never made a historic setting to begin with (H series was TSR, or?).
2. Especially after the OA/Orcs/whatever is racist issue now, making any kind of non European inspired book is a huge landmine as it will be combed through over and over again for anything racist, no matter how far fetched. WotC has nothing to gain by making one.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Sure, but in that sentence I was talking about FGU's Bushido, which had a bit more of a connection to actual Japan going on.

Very true, but as you say, Bushido wasn't all THAT accurate either. Funny how that works, you get some people writing about a culture they have passing familiarity with, and they often get things wrong. Frankly even if you were an expert on Japanese culture, probably any 5 random Japanese people would laugh at many of your misconceptions. Culture is complicated and subtle.

I actually do believe that if you are going to do a supplement on some other existing real-world culture for a game, you really better employ people of that culture. Literate people who understand the subject matter AND the culture, to at least edit and consult on the content, presentation, etc. It will just save a lot of trouble. Of course FGU (or TSR for that matter) in the 70's and 80's were not really able to do that with their budgets and resources. WotC today could certainly do that, and I highly suspect they would/will do so. Hasbro certainly should be a sophisticated enough organization to accomplish that.

 

[TheSword]

1. Because WotC never made a historic setting to begin with (H series was TSR, or?).
2. Especially after the OA/Orcs/whatever is racist issue now, making any kind of non European inspired book is a huge landmine as it will be combed through over and over again for anything racist, no matter how far fetched. WotC has nothing to gain by making one.

Making a book well, could put the issue to bed and rehabilitate the demons of the past.

 

[Fenris-77]

... so why would the idea of making one about Japan or China or Korea be outlandish?

Making one if they thought it would sell wouldn't have been outlandish. Saying they should have made one, based on some weird notion of fairness or balance, on the other hand, is pretty outlandish. Making one now wouldn't fix a thing, and any idea that that is a reasonable expectation is seriously misplaced.

 

[Aldarc]

What is and isn't immoral is, sadly, decided by twitter. When someone starts screaming and has enough range others will latch on and start changing "racism!", no matter how minor it actually is.

Bashing Twitter seems like a non sequitor to what @TheSword is saying here.

 

[Morrus]

What is and isn't immoral is, sadly, decided by twitter. When someone starts screaming and has enough range others will latch on and start changing "racism!", no matter how minor it actually is.

Twitter is just a method of communication used by many people of all different stripes. It doesn't decide anything, any more than a telephone does.

What happens is that some people use Twitter to express their opinions on things.

 

[Derren]

Bashing Twitter seems like a non sequitor to what @TheSword is saying here.

Not really.
Even opening a restaurant from a wrong culture (French are white, so no problem there, make it a Somalian for example) can be as damaging when someone with enough followers starts to protest against it.
And WotC is already in the crosshairs everything they publish specifically about a non white culture will be combed for anything remotely racist. I would even say people will find something even if they have to make it up because they want to.